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To: boatbums; CynicalBear
I do not conflate faith and knowledge; and I reserve the right to upbraid those who do.

Upbraid all you want, it will not cause me to disbelieve that God wants us to KNOW we have eternal life. Why did he direct the writers of Scripture to say exactly that if he didn't want us to have assurance? If God wants us to constantly beg for his mercy, never knowing from moment to moment if we'll "make it", then tell me why he inspired John, for example, to write "These things have I written unto you, that ye may know that ye have eternal life, even unto you that believe on the name of the Son of God." (I John 5:13) or for Jesus to say "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth him that sent me, hath eternal life, and cometh not into judgment, but hath passed out of death into life." (John 5:24)

or "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth hath eternal life." (John 6:47)?

Believe. May know.

If you are in an unrepentent state of sin at death, do you believe that you are saved anyway? Do you believe, as CB was so astonished by as a doctrine, in OSAS? No matter what you do?

2,462 posted on 11/16/2011 4:27:52 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr; CynicalBear
or "Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth hath eternal life." (John 6:47)?

Believe. May know.

Believe - HAS eternal life - isn't that what Jesus said?

If you are in an unrepentent state of sin at death, do you believe that you are saved anyway? Do you believe, as CB was so astonished by as a doctrine, in OSAS? No matter what you do?

I don't have any way of getting this concept to "sink into" your mind, but I know this has been discussed many, many times. I person who accepts Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, believes in him and receives God's gift of grace by faith HAS everlasting life. So, if one receives the gift by grace WITHOUT works, how could it still be by grace if works must be done to KEEP the gift? Either it is a gift or it is merited - it's NOT both, read Romans 11:6.

However, one who is born again into God's family is a new creation indwelt by the Holy Spirit and, as such, is being renewed every day. God works within us to conform us into the image of Christ. Yet it is all still walking by faith. If we sin - and we will as long as the old nature still remains - we have an advocate with the Father - Jesus Christ the righteous. We are found IN CHRIST, not having our own righteousness, but HIS righteousness. This is NOT saying we have a license to sin - hardly - because God disciplines us and chastises us because he loves us and wants what is best for our lives. He always desires that we come to him in repentance and confess our sins to him and he is FAITHFUL to forgive us our sins. No child of God can remain comfortable with sin in their life.

When your kids misbehave, do you disown them? You, being a human being, are capable of loving discipline and forgiveness because you love your children and they are yours - always. Are they ONLY your children when they're "good"? So, of course, God wants us to live holy lives and of course we hurt him when we wander off from his side, but he has promised that he will NEVER lose us, cast us off, forsake us or have anything or anyone pluck us from his hands. Now why do you think he said all that? If not to assure us of how much he loves us and cherishes us, then why say it at all? If, as you say, he WILL cast us away when we sin, then why did he even say he wouldn't? He included no exceptions in that, you know, Jesus didn't say he would lose nothing except the ones who do something wrong.

If God saves us by grace, then he keeps us by that same grace. I'm sorry you cannot receive that assurance or allow yourself to actually believe God's promises but, that's between you and him.

2,499 posted on 11/16/2011 9:21:08 PM PST by boatbums ( Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
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