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To: metmom

Abraham’s faith never wavered, in fact, it increased.

What does the phrase, “counted to us” mean?

Abraham’s righteousness was due to his faith, but his faith was seen and strengthened by his works.

What do you think was the reason for the story of the Prodigal Son? The younger son took his inheritance and squandered it. When he returns, his father is joyful, for he had thought the son was dead.

How about the “lost sheep”?

Or the “lost coin”

Each of these illustrates a loss of someone or something.
To be lost implies that he/she or it was once found or in one’s possession.

The son had the inheritance, but squandered it in search of his own will and pleasure.

The lost sheep, was once in the fold but wandered out of the protection of the shepherd and was lost.

And the coin, which was “saved” was lost.

Jesus will never let us go, we cannot be snatched from his hand but we can certainly let go of it ourselves.

Like Abraham, we strengthen our faith through our works, faith is made perfect through our works according to James.

Works serve a purpose together with faith.


1,727 posted on 11/11/2011 8:54:03 AM PST by Jvette
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To: Jvette
What does the phrase, “counted to us” mean?

Romans 4:1-8 1What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness." 4Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.

5And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: 7 "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; 8blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin."

As in credited to an account. Perhaps a better way to explain it would be that God does not consider our sin when dealing with us when we are in Christ, when we have been forgiven by Him and adopted into His family.

Ephesians 2:4-10 4But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ— by grace you have been saved— 6and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus.

8For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.

Our salvation is sure when we believed in Christ and put our trust in Him alone for salvation. It is not lost every time we sin and individual sin. That puts it squarely in the works camp. If you can lose your salvation by sin, that means that it's kept by works.

Sin may cost us our reward in heaven but it does not cost us heaven; heaven itself is not the reward. Our rewards are in addition to heaven.

1,731 posted on 11/11/2011 9:23:24 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Jvette
Like Abraham, we strengthen our faith through our works, faith is made perfect through our works according to James.

Faith may be perfected through works, but that faith still saved before the works were part of it.

As far as James, then reconcile that with this......

Galatians 3:1-6 1O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. 2Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? 3Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4 Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— 6just as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"?

If someone believes that salvation is by grace alone through faith alone in Christ alone, there is no conflict in those passages. Only if someone believes that salvation is dependent on works does it cause a problem.

Whatever anyone adds to Jesus is the thing they are depending on for salvation because they are saying that what Jesus did wasn't enough, it takes (fill-in-the-blank). THAT thing is then what saves the person because Jesus wasn't adequate.

Luke 17:6 And the Lord said, "If you had faith like a grain of mustard seed, you could say to this mulberry tree, 'Be uprooted and planted in the sea,' and it would obey you.

Faith works not because of the amount of it, but because of what the faith is IN. Even if someone is putting faith in their faith, that isn't going to work. It has to be faith in GOD.

1,732 posted on 11/11/2011 9:39:01 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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