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To: boatbums
Neither do we know them. So, as far as it being us merely talking about spirituality and not manifesting it, we could say the same thing about them. Didn't Jesus say something about when we judge another we are judged by the same measure?

When they by direct and indirect means show that they say one thing and do the opposite, that is not my judgement.

1,704 posted on 11/11/2011 5:26:42 AM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr; boatbums; smvoice; CynicalBear; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; ...
Galatians 5:22-23 22But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, 23 gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law.

Matthew 7:21-23 21 "Not everyone who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but the one who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' 23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.'

2 Corinthians 11:13-15 13For such men are false apostles, deceitful workmen, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 14And no wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 15So it is no surprise if his servants, also, disguise themselves as servants of righteousness. Their end will correspond to their deeds.

Religiosity is absolutely the WRONG criteria on which to judge someone, be it demonstrations of works or gifts. Jesus Himself says that many will appeal to their religious works and yet were never known by Him.

How then, can any person dare to use that as a legitimate basis on which to determine a person's level of commitment to Christ or their spiritual maturity?

Would that be an intentional or unintentional sin?

The Pharisees did all the right religious things and were sounded rebuked and condemned by Jesus. Color me singularly unimpressed by a person's outward display of religious activity, praying in public, kneeling, bowing, giving, church attendance, whatever....

1,707 posted on 11/11/2011 6:04:37 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: MarkBsnr
When they by direct and indirect means show that they say one thing and do the opposite, that is not my judgement.

But it IS your judgment, simply because you can not and do not know the motive of the heart - that is God's realm. Though I certainly agree that there are many people of all walks of life and creeds that say one thing and do another, it is hardly just all those "others" that are guilty of it. For example, there is a well known survey out there that shows a very low percentage of professing Roman Catholics believe in the divine inspiration of the Bible, that abortion is wrong or even whether or not premarital sex is wrong. I believe it also showed that Roman Catholics as a majority vote for Liberal Democrats and their policies. So, I agree that you probably have direct means to know people who say one thing but do the opposite especially within your own religion, but it would be disingenuous to broad-brush all of one group, wouldn't it? And it would certainly be wrong to judge character or faith by only outward acts of "religiosity", don't you agree?

Jesus said by their "fruits" we could know one another, in other words, their mere words don't count for much if actions don't back them up. But these actions, our fruits, are clearly spelled out in Scripture as love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control (Galatians 5:22).

The fruits, or acts, of the sinful nature are also easy to recognize. They are obvious: sexual immorality, impurity, lustful pleasures, idolatry, sorcery, hostility, quarreling, jealousy, outbursts of anger, selfish ambition, dissension, division, envy, drunkenness, wild parties, and other sins like these (Gal. 5:19-21). So, I believe Jesus does want us to judge, to be "fruit inspectors" so to speak. Because how else would we really "know" anything about each other, whether or not what someone preached was truth? We should just be careful that what we condemn in someone we are not also doing the same things.

1,740 posted on 11/11/2011 7:12:27 PM PST by boatbums ( Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
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