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To: dartuser
"I believe your list of quotes from the church fathers puts to bed the notion of "sola scriptura is a 16th century invention of the reformers.""

When the Early Church Fathers are cited when only discussing Scripture, in carefully selected quotes chosen for the "Protestant ear" they of course sound Protestant. However, when these same fathers are cited in the context of their entire body of work it becomes obvious that the preached that the Holy Scripture, the Apostolic Tradition and the Church are conjoined into a single Truth arising from a single source.

11 posted on 10/28/2011 9:17:26 AM PDT by Natural Law (Transubstantiation - Change we can believe in.)
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To: Natural Law; dartuser
>>cited in the context of their entire body of work<<

So their “entire body of work” made parts of their statements false?

to seek nothing else

"I beg of you, my dear brother, to live among these books [scripture], to meditate upon them, to know nothing else, to seek nothing else." - Jerome (Letter 53:10)

and from no other source.

"There is, brethren, one God, the knowledge of whom we gain from the Holy Scriptures, and from no other source. For just as a man, if he wishes to be skilled in the wisdom of this world, will find himself unable to get at it in any other way than by mastering the dogmas of philosophers, so all of us who wish to practice piety will be unable to learn its practice from any other quarter than the oracles of God. Whatever things, then, the Holy Scripture declare, at these let us look; and whatsoever things they teach, these let us learn; and as the Father wills our belief to be, let us believe; and as He wills the Son to be glorified, let us glorify Him; and as He wills the Holy Spirit to be bestowed, let us receive Him. Not according to our own will, nor according to our own mind, nor yet as using violently those things which are given by God, but even as He has chosen to teach them by the Holy Scriptures, so let us discern them." - Hippolytus, Against Noetus, ch 9

which we do not find in the holy Scriptures

"For how can we adopt those things which we do not find in the holy Scriptures?" - Ambrose (On the Duties of the Clergy, 1:23:102)

15 posted on 10/28/2011 10:20:20 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: Natural Law
I find it interesting that when an individual quote from a church father dispells RCC dogma, it is dismissed by appealing to the broader context of their entire works.

But when a single verse of the Bible is interpreted to support RCC dogma, the broader context should be ignored to maintain the doctrine.

Spock would say ... "facinating."

I may have found my next term paper topic.

16 posted on 10/28/2011 10:32:07 AM PDT by dartuser ("If you are ... what you were ... then you're not.")
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To: Natural Law; rzman21; CynicalBear
Both these posts, early in the thread, are good.

The problem is that a LOT of non-Catholic theology au fond is based on a forced choice, zero-sum, either/or paradigm that clouds discourse and obscures truth.

The clue is the ready recourse to argumentum ad hominem. They say things like [NOT an exact quote], "Among those who love the TRUTH," these quotes should be sufficient." This kind of attack makes it clear that, in their minds, to hold an opinion differing from theirs or to construe these texts in a manner contrary to theirs is to put oneself under suspicion of a profound spiritual defect.

There are bullies on both sides, but for one side, bullying is part and parcel of the dialectical approach.

326 posted on 11/01/2011 5:00:51 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Jesus, I trust in you.)
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