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Reformation Day – and What Led Me To Back to Catholicism
The Catholic Thing ^ | 10/28/11 | Francis J. Beckwith

Posted on 10/28/2011 6:59:29 AM PDT by markomalley

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To: MarkBsnr; boatbums
>> Jesus calls us to be perfect, yet no one among is perfect.<<

Good grief. Do Catholics not read scripture at all?

1 Corinthians 6:11 And such were some of you: but ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the Spirit of our God.

Hebrews 10:14 For by one offering he hath perfected for ever them that are sanctified.

2,081 posted on 11/14/2011 11:37:49 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: MarkBsnr

LOL There seems to be many opinions of what books the Apocrypha consists of. Nonetheless one could well understand that it does include those books not included in the Protestant Bible. Nice try at diversion though.


2,082 posted on 11/14/2011 11:50:59 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear
O well-beloved of God, hear the ardent cry which rises up from every heart.

Well beloved of God, not God. The old dude got a little carried away, but I do not believe that he meant it as worship.

2,083 posted on 11/14/2011 11:56:48 AM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr
"Do Catholics not read scripture at all?"

A better question is do anti-Catholics read all the Scripture. Hebrews 10:14 can only mean what they say it means IF one has declared themselves to be sanctified.

2,084 posted on 11/14/2011 11:57:06 AM PST by Natural Law (If you love the Catholic Church raise your hands, if not raise your standards.)
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To: metmom
Seems that Catholics think that pray is not worship.

They are not the same thing. Penitential prayer is not worship, for instance. I can worship without praying as well.

2,085 posted on 11/14/2011 11:58:05 AM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: CynicalBear

When Protestants tell me that they are saved and know that they are saved no matter what else they do for the rest of their lives, that is self declaration.


2,086 posted on 11/14/2011 11:59:27 AM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: CynicalBear
Huh? There is no Judges 24. Oy!

Double Oy! with garnish. I meant Judges 20.

2,087 posted on 11/14/2011 12:00:14 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: CynicalBear
>>Well, let's see. If you renounce everything pagan, then you must have gotten rid of all crosses. No wedding ring, right? No praying in groups. Of course you do not sing hymns. And so on, right?<<

Do Catholics not understand what is written and sanctioned in scripture?

Of course we understand it. I had thought you to say that you renounce everything with pagan roots. That includes wedding rings...

2,088 posted on 11/14/2011 12:01:54 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: presently no screen name
It's ALL about JESUS!.....Negative. The true appeal of the Reformation is the development.....

It's not ALL about Jesus?

The Reformation was never about Jesus. It was about personal power, wealth and religious anarchy.

2,089 posted on 11/14/2011 12:03:51 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: Natural Law
"What about *annulments* (Catholic divorce)? Jesus said this...."

Jesus actually said considerably more on the subject of divorce than is contained in Matthew 5. Matthew 19 contains a complete prohibition against divorce:

"Some Pharisees came to Jesus, testing Him and asking, “Is it lawful for a man to divorce his wife for any reason at all?” And He answered and said, “Have you not read that He who created them from the beginning MADE THEM MALE AND FEMALE, and said, ‘FOR THIS REASON A MAN SHALL LEAVE HIS FATHER AND MOTHER AND BE JOINED TO HIS WIFE, AND THE TWO SHALL BECOME ONE FLESH’? So they are no longer two, but one flesh. What therefore God has joined together, let no man separate.”" Matthew 19:3-6

How many of these who attack the Church actually left the Church to divorce? How many think that the forgiveness they believe they received for that divorce is vacant if they continue to live in a state of adultery with a second spouse?

I have often said that those who leave the Faith do so for personal reasons; those who join the Faith do so for theological ones.

2,090 posted on 11/14/2011 12:07:43 PM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: metmom
What is for them I wonder?

You were Catholic and wonder what Catholic worship is? And why Catholics don't consider intercessory prayer worship?

I think one of the benefits of "I am the church" is you get to decide everything for the church.

2,091 posted on 11/14/2011 12:12:49 PM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: MarkBsnr; smvoice; metmom; boatbums; caww
>> But, how about you share with me what was written on the inscription over Jesus' head on the cross?<<

An inscription written in three different languages.

Luke 23:38 And a superscription also was written over him in letters of Greek, and Latin, and Hebrew

John quoted the Latin inscription. IESUS NAZARENVS REX IVDAEORVM (Jesus of Nazareth The King of The Jews.)

Luke quoted the Greek inscription. OUTOS ESTIN O BASILEUS TWN IOUDAIWN (This is The King of The Jews)

Matthew since he was writing to the Jews whose language was Hebrew quoted the Hebrew inscription. This is The King of The Jews.

Mark of course was rather brief even of his description of what Jesus said just quoted the short version as he was prone to do. The King of The Jews.

I’ve been asked that over and over by Catholics and other pagans trying to discredit scripture. It gets really old because it only points to their lack of study of scripture.

2,092 posted on 11/14/2011 12:15:08 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: MarkBsnr
>>Double Oy! with garnish. I meant Judges 20.<<

LOL Hate it when that happens.

No, Judges 20 is not about Mary.

2,093 posted on 11/14/2011 12:30:18 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: MarkBsnr
>>The old dude got a little carried away, but I do not believe that he meant it as worship.<<

Riiiiiggggghhhhhttttt. And which one of the Popes had emblems on his robe to Mary.

2,094 posted on 11/14/2011 12:32:59 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: MarkBsnr; metmom; smvoice; boatbums; caww
>>no matter what else they do for the rest of their lives<<

Find me the quote where a Protestant said that or forever admit you just declared a falsehood.

2,095 posted on 11/14/2011 12:34:52 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: MarkBsnr; boatbums
Now you are claiming righteousness? Jesus calls us to be perfect, yet no one among is perfect.

Maybe you're getting it after all.

Nobody is perfect but anyone who trusts in Christ, who is IN Christ, has been declared righteous. We have been clothed in His righteousness because our lives are hidden with Christ in God.

Colossians 3:3 For you have died, and your life is hidden with Christ in God.

God does not count our sin against us, even though He does have the right to if He chooses. But he chose not to for those who by faith accept the work of Christ on the cross for their sins.

It's a legal pardon. Sure God knows we sin, but has chosen to not count our sins against us for Christ's sake.

Romans 4:1-10 1What then shall we say was gained by Abraham, our forefather according to the flesh? 2For if Abraham was justified by works, he has something to boast about, but not before God. 3For what does the Scripture say? "Abraham believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness." 4Now to the one who works, his wages are not counted as a gift but as his due.

5And to the one who does not work but believes in him who justifies the ungodly, his faith is counted as righteousness, 6just as David also speaks of the blessing of the one to whom God counts righteousness apart from works: 7 "Blessed are those whose lawless deeds are forgiven, and whose sins are covered; 8blessed is the man against whom the Lord will not count his sin."

9Is this blessing then only for the circumcised, or also for the uncircumcised? We say that faith was counted to Abraham as righteousness.

2,096 posted on 11/14/2011 12:36:30 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: MarkBsnr
>>Of course we understand it. I had thought you to say that you renounce everything with pagan roots.<<

Of course you weren’t trying to trap me were you. And no I don’t wear a wedding ring.

2,097 posted on 11/14/2011 12:36:38 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: presently no screen name
It's not ALL about Jesus?

Surprised?

2,098 posted on 11/14/2011 12:37:33 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: CynicalBear

NO, I was referring to the “Upon this rock” portion.


2,099 posted on 11/14/2011 12:38:00 PM PST by TexConfederate1861 (Surrender means that the history of this heroic struggle will be written by the enemy.)
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To: TexConfederate1861
>>NO, I was referring to the “Upon this rock” portion.<<

When did God give up that position?

Deut. 32:4 He is the Rock, his work is perfect: for all his ways are judgment: a God of truth and without iniquity, just and right is he.

2 Sam. 22:2 And he said, The LORD is my rock, and my fortress, and my deliverer; 3 The God of my rock; in him will I trust: he is my shield, and the horn of my salvation, my high tower, and my refuge, my saviour; thou savest me from violence.

Psalm 18:31, "And who is a rock, except our God."

Isaiah 44:8, "Is there any God besides Me, or is there any other Rock? I know of none."

Rom. 9:33, "Behold, I lay in Zion a stone of stumbling and a rock of offense, and he who believes in Him will not be disappointed."

1 Cor. 3:11, "For no man can lay a foundation other than the one which is laid, which is Jesus Christ,"

1 Cor. 10:4, "and all drank the same spiritual drink, for they were drinking from a spiritual rock (petras) which followed them; and the rock (petra) was Christ."

1 Pet. 2:8, speaking of Jesus says that he is "A stone of stumbling and a rock (petra) of offense"; for they stumble because they are disobedient to the word, and to this doom they were also appointed."

2,100 posted on 11/14/2011 12:54:30 PM PST by CynicalBear
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