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Reformation Day – and What Led Me To Back to Catholicism
The Catholic Thing ^ | 10/28/11 | Francis J. Beckwith

Posted on 10/28/2011 6:59:29 AM PDT by markomalley

October 31 is only three days away. For Protestants, it is Reformation Day, the date in 1517 on which Martin Luther nailed his Ninety-Five Theses to that famous door in Wittenberg, Germany. Since I returned to the Catholic Church in April 2007, each year the commemoration has become a time of reflection about my own journey and the puzzles that led me back to the Church of my youth.

One of those puzzles was the relationship between the Church, Tradition, and the canon of Scripture. As a Protestant, I claimed to reject the normative role that Tradition plays in the development of Christian doctrine. But at times I seemed to rely on it. For example, on the content of the biblical canon – whether the Old Testament includes the deuterocanonical books (or “Apocrypha”), as the Catholic Church holds and Protestantism rejects. I would appeal to the exclusion of these books as canonical by the Jewish Council of Jamnia (A.D. 90-100) as well as doubts about those books raised by St. Jerome, translator of the Latin Vulgate, and a few other Church Fathers.

My reasoning, however, was extra-biblical. For it appealed to an authoritative leadership that has the power to recognize and certify books as canonical that were subsequently recognized as such by certain Fathers embedded in a tradition that, as a Protestant, I thought more authoritative than the tradition that certified what has come to be known as the Catholic canon. This latter tradition, rejected by Protestants, includes St. Augustine as well as the Council of Hippo (A.D. 393), the Third Council of Carthage (A.D. 397), the Fourth Council of Carthage (A.D. 419), and the Council of Florence (A.D. 1441).

But if, according to my Protestant self, a Jewish council and a few Church Fathers are the grounds on which I am justified in saying what is the proper scope of the Old Testament canon, then what of New Testament canonicity? So, ironically, given my Protestant understanding of ecclesiology, then the sort of authority and tradition that apparently provided me warrant to exclude the deuterocanonical books from Scripture – binding magisterial authority with historical continuity – is missing from the Church during the development of New Testament canonicity.

The Catholic Church, on the other hand, maintains that this magisterial authority was in fact present in the early Church and thus gave its leadership the power to recognize and fix the New Testament canon. So, ironically, the Protestant case for a deuterocanonical-absent Old Testament canon depends on Catholic intuitions about a tradition of magisterial authority.

This led to two other tensions. First, in defense of the Protestant Old Testament canon, I argued, as noted above, that although some of the Church’s leading theologians and several regional councils accepted what is known today as the Catholic canon, others disagreed and embraced what is known today as the Protestant canon. It soon became clear to me that this did not help my case, since by employing this argumentative strategy, I conceded the central point of Catholicism: the Church is logically prior to the Scriptures. That is, if the Church, until the Council of Florence’s ecumenical declaration in 1441, can live with a certain degree of ambiguity about the content of the Old Testament canon, that means that sola scriptura was never a fundamental principle of authentic Christianity.

After all, if Scripture alone applies to the Bible as a whole, then we cannot know to which particular collection of books this principle applies until the Bible’s content is settled. Thus, to concede an officially unsettled canon for Christianity’s first fifteen centuries seems to make the Catholic argument that sola scriptura was a sixteenth-century invention and, therefore, not an essential Christian doctrine.

Second, because the list of canonical books is itself not found in Scripture – as one can find the Ten Commandments or the names of Christ’s apostles – any such list, whether Protestant or Catholic, would be an item of extra-biblical theological knowledge. Take, for example, a portion of the revised and expanded Evangelical Theological Society statement of faith suggested (and eventually rejected by the membership) by two ETS members following my return to the Catholic Church. It states that, “this written word of God consists of the sixty-six books of the Old and New Testaments and is the supreme authority in all matters of belief and behavior.”

But the belief that the Bible consists only of sixty-six books is not a claim of Scripture, since one cannot find the list in it, but a claim about Scripture as a whole. That is, the whole has a property – i.e., “consisting of sixty-six books,” – that is not found in any of the parts. In other words, if the sixty-six books are the supreme authority on matters of belief, and the number of books is a belief, and one cannot find that belief in any of the books, then the belief that Scripture consists of sixty-six particular books is an extra-biblical belief, an item of theological knowledge that is prima facie non-biblical.

For the Catholic, this is not a problem, since the Bible is the book of the Church, and thus there is an organic unity between the fixing of the canon and the development of doctrine and Christian practice.

Although I am forever indebted to my Evangelical brethren for instilling and nurturing in me a deep love of Scripture, it was that love that eventually led me to the Church that had the authority to distinguish Scripture from other things.


TOPICS: Catholic
KEYWORDS: romancatholic
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To: CynicalBear
"You have been shown many times that the church Jesus instituted consists of all who are baptized in His name not some man made organization centered in Rome.

I've never claimed that it was centered in Rome.

1,661 posted on 11/10/2011 10:09:19 AM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr; metmom

Posting scripture is outrage? Oh my.


1,662 posted on 11/10/2011 10:23:16 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: metmom
>> People ought to at least be consistent. If Jesus said one part of the verse, He said it all. If you’re going to believe the necessity of water baptism on that verse, then believe the rest.<<

I wouldn’t expect to see the Pope handling Adders anytime soon.

1,663 posted on 11/10/2011 10:32:34 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: metmom
Ought to be, should be and Christian to be. My point is that you guys don't, do you? If you did, there'd be overwhelming evidence to that fact.

You are incapable of knowing that because you don't KNOW us. You know a screen name on an internet forum.

It's elementary, my dear metmom.

Besides, posting Scripture is not *outrage*. That is our defense, the Word of God, which is the sword of the Spirit.

Uh huh. It's quite entertaining when you guys combine a random verse generator with a random meaning generator. Not sure that it qualifies as a sword. And you have taught me yet another Reformational output here - that Jesus is the sword of the Spirit. Where does Scripture say that Jesus the sword of the Spirit?

1,664 posted on 11/10/2011 10:38:49 AM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: Jvette
The gates of heaven was closed to us, after Jesus it is opened.

And we know to whom He gave the keys...

1,665 posted on 11/10/2011 10:41:06 AM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: CynicalBear
Posting scripture is outrage? Oh my.

Attempting to angrily refute the words of Jesus with the words of one of His bishops indicates it.

1,666 posted on 11/10/2011 10:43:09 AM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: CynicalBear
I wouldn’t expect to see the Pope handling Adders anytime soon.

Rowan Atkinson is Church of England.


1,667 posted on 11/10/2011 10:48:59 AM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: MarkBsnr
Do not make this thread "about" individual Freepers. That is also a form of "making it personal."

Discuss the issues all you want, but do not make it personal.

1,668 posted on 11/10/2011 10:54:59 AM PST by Religion Moderator
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To: MarkBsnr
More OT trumping Jesus Christ's words? I know who I believe in.


Maybe you should read the New Testament then as it says the same thing as the Old Testament when it comes to justification by faith.

New Testament scripture of justification by faith

Romans 1:17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

Galatians 3:11 But that no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, it is evident: for, The just shall live by faith.

Hebrews 10:38 Now the just shall live by faith: but if any man draw back, my soul shall have no pleasure in him.

Old Testament scripture on justification by faith.

Habakkuk 2:4 Behold, his soul which is lifted up is not upright in him: but the just shall live by his faith.

Justification by faith alone . He got that right. Everything in the New Testament is hidden in the Old Testament .

1,669 posted on 11/10/2011 10:59:08 AM PST by Lera
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To: MarkBsnr
Not sure that it qualifies as a sword. And you have taught me yet another Reformational output here - that Jesus is the sword of the Spirit. Where does Scripture say that Jesus the sword of the Spirit?

Is your reading comprehension really that bad? Or are you really that staggeringly ignorant of Scripture?

FWIW, since when to paragraphs of Scripture count as *random verse generator*? Of course, if that's the best you can do to refute Scripture, it shows the weakness of your position.

Or does the Catholic church have classes in twisting others words and misrepresenting them?

Post 1633 to which you responded......"That is our defense, the Word of God, which is the sword of the Spirit. "

Ephesians 6:10-20 10Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might. 11 Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil. 12For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

13Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. 14Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness, 15and, as shoes for your feet, having put on the readiness given by the gospel of peace. 16In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one; 17and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God, 18praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication.

To that end keep alert with all perseverance, making supplication for all the saints, 19and also for me, that words may be given to me in opening my mouth boldly to proclaim the mystery of the gospel, 20for which I am an ambassador in chains, that I may declare it boldly, as I ought to speak.

1,670 posted on 11/10/2011 11:12:12 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: MarkBsnr; CynicalBear
Attempting to angrily refute the words of Jesus with the words of one of His bishops indicates it.

How do you know that there's anger behind the refutation?

Are you assuming or projecting?

Nobody in the NT ever referred to themselves as *bishops*. Paul rightly called himself an apostle.

1,671 posted on 11/10/2011 11:14:21 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: Alex Murphy

Thanks for the reply, Alex, but the netnanny will not let it through the firewall. Appreciate the effort. I’m sure that it was worthy.


1,672 posted on 11/10/2011 11:20:21 AM PST by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel, if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so.)
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To: Lera; 1000 silverlings; Alex Murphy; bkaycee; blue-duncan; boatbums; caww; count-your-change; ...
Even Abraham was justified by faith.

Salvation has ALWAYS been by faith.

It's a matter of how that faith is expressed and how God deals with mankind under the different covenants, otherwise known as dispensations.

Works are always the outcome of faith. Under the old covenant, people were judged by those works as to whether their faith was real saving faith or not because Jesus hadn't come.

Under the new covenant, people are judged by their faith in the revealed Redeemer, their response to Jesus.

Galatians 2:15-21 15We ourselves are Jews by birth and not Gentile sinners; 16yet we know that a person is not justified by works of the law but through faith in Jesus Christ, so we also have believed in Christ Jesus, in order to be justified by faith in Christ and not by works of the law, because by works of the law no one will be justified.

17But if, in our endeavor to be justified in Christ, we too were found to be sinners, is Christ then a servant of sin? Certainly not! 18For if I rebuild what I tore down, I prove myself to be a transgressor. 19For through the law I died to the law, so that I might live to God. 20I have been crucified with Christ. It is no longer I who live, but Christ who lives in me. And the life I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave himself for me.

21I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose.

Galatians 3:1-29 1 O foolish Galatians! Who has bewitched you? It was before your eyes that Jesus Christ was publicly portrayed as crucified. 2Let me ask you only this: Did you receive the Spirit by works of the law or by hearing with faith? 3Are you so foolish? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? 4 Did you suffer so many things in vain—if indeed it was in vain? 5Does he who supplies the Spirit to you and works miracles among you do so by works of the law, or by hearing with faith— 6just as Abraham "believed God, and it was counted to him as righteousness"?

7Know then that it is those of faith who are the sons of Abraham. 8And the Scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the Gentiles by faith, preached the gospel beforehand to Abraham, saying, "In you shall all the nations be blessed." 9So then, those who are of faith are blessed along with Abraham, the man of faith.

10For all who rely on works of the law are under a curse; for it is written, "Cursed be everyone who does not abide by all things written in the Book of the Law, and do them." 11Now it is evident that no one is justified before God by the law, for "The righteous shall live by faith." 12But the law is not of faith, rather "The one who does them shall live by them."

13Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us—for it is written, "Cursed is everyone who is hanged on a tree"— 14so that in Christ Jesus the blessing of Abraham might come to the Gentiles, so that we might receive the promised Spirit through faith.

15 To give a human example, brothers: even with a man-made covenant, no one annuls it or adds to it once it has been ratified. 16Now the promises were made to Abraham and to his offspring. It does not say, "And to offsprings," referring to many, but referring to one, "And to your offspring," who is Christ. 17This is what I mean: the law, which came 430 years afterward, does not annul a covenant previously ratified by God, so as to make the promise void. 18For if the inheritance comes by the law, it no longer comes by promise; but God gave it to Abraham by a promise.

19Why then the law? It was added because of transgressions, until the offspring should come to whom the promise had been made, and it was put in place through angels by an intermediary. 20Now an intermediary implies more than one, but God is one.

21Is the law then contrary to the promises of God? Certainly not! For if a law had been given that could give life, then righteousness would indeed be by the law. 22But the Scripture imprisoned everything under sin, so that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe.

23Now before faith came, we were held captive under the law, imprisoned until the coming faith would be revealed. 24So then, the law was our guardian until Christ came, in order that we might be justified by faith. 25But now that faith has come, we are no longer under a guardian, 26for in Christ Jesus you are all sons of God, through faith.27For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ. 28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29And if you are Christ’s, then you are Abraham’s offspring, heirs according to promise.

1,673 posted on 11/10/2011 11:28:00 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom

How sad that so many attempt to put themselves under the law.


1,674 posted on 11/10/2011 11:45:12 AM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear

Was that too random?


1,675 posted on 11/10/2011 11:46:33 AM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom

Not at all. I see all the scriptures pointing to the grace of God taking us out from under the law and so many insist on going back under the law by claiming personal or corporate actions are needed to secure salvation.


1,676 posted on 11/10/2011 12:06:40 PM PST by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear

I figured a chapter and a half of unbroken Scripture might not qualify as random, but you never know.

Any accusation is possible in some people’s bid to discredit Scripture.


1,677 posted on 11/10/2011 12:35:34 PM PST by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom
1 Corinthians 10:31 So, whether you eat or drink, or whatever you do, do all to the glory of God.

Worship ought to be a lifestyle, not something we do separately from our secular lives.

Amen! As is submission to Jesus Christ who is LORD. That means every area of our lives - acts, thoughts, intents - and SHOULD be evidence of the kind of faith we really have. I'm sure we have all known people that put on their "holy" costume for "church" each Sunday, but as soon as they get home, the mask is removed and God is the last thing on their minds for the rest of the week. God desires a "broken and contrite" heart. What does he require of us? "He has showed you, O man, what is good. And what does the LORD require of you? To act justly and to love mercy and to walk humbly with your God. (Micah 6:8)

Going through the motions does not fool God. Raising hands, singing hymns, giving money, closing our eyes during prayer, even kneeling, cannot be the sole evidence of a submitted to the Lord Christian. God sees the heart and, as I said, it is what is within the heart of us that counts.

1,678 posted on 11/10/2011 4:34:10 PM PST by boatbums ( Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us. Titus 3:5)
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To: metmom

No one desires to discredit anything. After all, it was OUR bishops and clergy that established the canon of scripture in the first place. PROTESTANTS love to take OUR Bible, and spout their interpretation of it, yet won’t accept anything else, all in the name of POPERY PHOBIA!!! St. John Chrysostom did the first interpretation of the scriptures. The Orthodox Study Bible by Thomas Nelson. (NKJV) has that interpretation. Try checking it out sometime. You might learn something new!


1,679 posted on 11/10/2011 4:38:29 PM PST by TexConfederate1861 (Surrender means that the history of this heroic struggle will be written by the enemy.)
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To: metmom

Faith without works is DEAD.


1,680 posted on 11/10/2011 4:46:52 PM PST by TexConfederate1861 (Surrender means that the history of this heroic struggle will be written by the enemy.)
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