Reformation Day – and What Led Me To Back to Catholicism

The Catholic Thing ^ | 10/28/11 | Francis J. Beckwith

[TexConfederate1861]

Same church, different cities.

[Iscool]

"WHY would God give us this free gift of salvation, with no strings attached?"

Why indeed would God give us the knowledge of right versus wrong, the gift of reason and freewill, and a sense of responsibility if we have no need of them? Why would He reveal His Word and make us subject to His law, known to us by the dictates of conscience, if it were pointless?

Obviously, you can't get the answer from your religion...Your religion doesn't know...

The answers however are in the scriptures...

[Iscool]

But then, it isn't about Scripture is it, it is about the interpretation of Scripture. Aquinas cites Scripture extensively and assembles its meaning in a very logical and methodical manner. If the foundations of my faith were as weak as yours appears to be I might be afraid of Aquinas too.

You mean in a way that the natural man can understand it...

I've read some of Aquinas...I've read many modern commentaries...

Aquinas' commentary doesn't hold a candle to those who actually believe what the scriptures say...

I wouldn't waste any more time on Aquinas than I already have...

[Iscool]

Your faith didn’t begin until the reformation. Try again.

Now that's a stupid statement...There have been non Catholics long before that religion started in the 300s...

Look at Paul; don't call any man father; don't forbid any one to marry; don't prevent anyone from eating meat on Friday; there is only one mediator between God and man, and it sure ain't Mary...

And Peter; don't you dare bow down to me...

These guys were not Catholics...They abhorred everything the Catholic religion stands for...

But the extremely pagan Constantine, he took a real likin' to your religion...So much so that he made it the official religion of Rome...The Catholics and the pagan goddess worshipers could walk and live hand in hand...

[Iscool]

Nope, its about whose beliefs are being "injected". It all goes back to authority. Protestants, like you, begin with the premise that "no Guinea bastard is gonna tell me what to think" so you reject a priori any and all things taught by the Church in favor of anything taught by anyone who similarly rejects the Church.

No dog bone for you today Fido...What we believe in the scriptures has not a thing at all to do with your religion...We read the scriptures and believe what they say, as they say it...

We don't go for private, twisted interpretations when the words we read make perfectly good sense as we read them...

Your refusal to even consider the writings of Aquinas, a Doctor of the Church and a man recognized as a giant by many Protestant theologians speaks to the willful ignorance of Protestantism.

What is this fixation with Aquinas??? God trumps Aquinas every time...I'll stick with God...

[Iscool]

Time will tell Bubba.

I must have really hit a nerve, I'm a Bubba now...Time will tell you...I already know...

[Iscool]

Hey Iscool. When did you change your name? Does that mean you here in the south?

That's alright...Nothing wrong with Bubba...But it's gotta be CoolBubba...

[Iscool]

5. Now God has willed that the Blessed Virgin Mary should be exempted from this general rule.

They are lying right off the bat...God never willed any such thing...

[Iscool]

Better check the historical record. There was ONE Church until 1054 AD....and it wasn’t Protestant

You mean the Catholic historical record...No thanks...

I right now am a member of the original church...It doesn't have a pope...It doesn't have a building...It doesn't have a country/state...It doesn't pray to anyone but God...It doesn't/can't save anyone...

The original church did not come out of anyone's religious tradition...The church was the result of preaching and teaching that became written down and we have that same written record today...

We have the blueprint and the guide for the church...

[TexConfederate1861]

wrong again. check out any historical church.

[Iscool]

Christ has paid the penalty for sin, death, eternal separation from God. There is nothing man can do to overcome the separation from God caused by sin.

Yes there certainly is...We can repent and believe and trust in Jesus Christ as our Savior...And Jesus did not pay the penalty for 'eternal separation from God, otherwise known as Hell...People will pay that penalty themselves...

One is saved if one believes in Jesus, but belief is not a one time declaration of the so called “Sinner’s prayer”.

I can only assume you know very little about a sinner's prayer...

And this verse alone, proves that your are wrong...

Joh 5:24 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life.

And this:

Eph 2:6 And hath raised us up together, and made us sit together in heavenly places in Christ Jesus:

You think Jesus is going to kick us out of heaven after we are already there with him???

He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

It all comes with rightly dividing the truth (2Tim. 2:15)...

1Jn 4:4 Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1Jn 5:4 For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

1Jn 5:5 Who is he that overcometh the world, but he that believeth that Jesus is the Son of God?

As Christians, we have already overcome...You can't chose one verse over the other...You must reconcile all the scripture to understand it...

If a person has to HOPE to have eternal life in heaven

It turns out to be a good thing when people learn to understand what they are reading...

Rom 12:12 Rejoicing in hope; patient in tribulation; continuing instant in prayer;

Hope

ἐλπίς
elpis
el-pece'
Fromἔλπω elpō which is a primary word (to anticipate, usually with pleasure); expectation (abstract or concrete) or confidence: - faith, hope.

[Iscool]

That is blatantly and provably false.

I don't know how you could prove it, but give it a try...

I'm going by what I read and hear...

You guys pray to Mary in the Rosary...You pray to Saints and Mary for everything from salvation and mercy to lost keys and real estate transactions...

It 'appears' that the only time you pray to God is during Mass which statistically is attended only once a month or so by most Catholics...

If you have some evidence of something different, would love to see it...

[Iscool]

The only conspiracy is a conspiracy of the grossly and maliciously ignorant who have never considered the concept or practice of visio divina.

Try again...I don't understand German...

Neither have the accusers considered the role of symbolism in communicating and creating mnemonics for the teaching of Scripture to the illiterate and those who have no written language.

So you had to resort to borrowing pagan symbols to get the simpletons to understand Christianity???

If I was in charge of a religion, I'd invent my own symbols so's the dummies wouldn't confuse my religion with the pagan's...

[CynicalBear]

I think not. One can find the struggle Paul was involved in against the inclusion of the worship of Diana in Acts 19. The merchants of Ephesus were none too pleased with Paul and the other Apostles and disciples teachings contrary to the worship and practices there.

[D-fendr]

I think not.

Dead giveaway that this is the opinion of a fallible man invoking your rule.

Sorry, doesn't count.

[Cronos]

Perhaps, but the new generation of sing-and-dance-to-ignore-oblivion gruops like boatbums are embracing the idea that Jesus was just an avatar of Archangel Michael

These groups like boatbums will have fallen for the fake story that Paul just renamed the pagan “unknown god” Jesus.

[Cronos]

which cb rule is that?

[metmom]

Different churches. Different problems.

[Natural Law]

"That's typical of Boatbum's and the like's posts -- they will ally themselves with anyone against the Church -- even those that claim that Jesus was the Archangel Michael. Of course, some may believe that..."

People like that actually believe that all information on the internet is created equal, endowed by its creators with an unalienable right to attack the Church with immunity from scrutiny and review. Somehow they have convinced themselves and each other that every site slapped together by the Rev. Cletus T. Wormwood and the fine ladies of the Burning Cross Congregation's Anti-Papist Society is equal in merit and as deserving of respect as the writings of St. Thomas Aquinas, Saint Ambrose, Saint Augustine, Saint Jerome, and Pope Gregory I, and Saint Bellarmine so they choose to remain blissfully ignorant.

"Father, forgive them; for they do not know what they are doing." - Luke 23:24

[Cronos]

Iscool: I don't understand German...borrowing pagan symbols to get the simpletons to understand Christianity

woohooo -- perhaps

You may also need the guide to English, right?