Posted on 10/15/2011 9:30:31 AM PDT by marbren
Luke 15:11-32
(KJV)
11And he said, A certain man had two sons:
12And the younger of them said to his father, Father, give me the portion of goods that falleth to me. And he divided unto them his living.
13And not many days after the younger son gathered all together, and took his journey into a far country, and there wasted his substance with riotous living.
14And when he had spent all, there arose a mighty famine in that land; and he began to be in want.
15And he went and joined himself to a citizen of that country; and he sent him into his fields to feed swine.
16And he would fain have filled his belly with the husks that the swine did eat: and no man gave unto him.
17And when he came to himself, he said, How many hired servants of my father's have bread enough and to spare, and I perish with hunger!
18I will arise and go to my father, and will say unto him, Father, I have sinned against heaven, and before thee,
with common sense.
exactly how can a 2,000 year old consistent doctrine of the Church be in any way considered “heresy”?
was Paul part of this Gentile Bride or Israel?
IMHO
Here is another reading :shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach11–32 The parable of the Prodigal Son who leaves his loving father with his fortune,
squanders it and then returns home in repentance is so widely referred to that those
unfamiliar with the New Testament are often surprised to learn that the story originates
here. Some say its only point is that the love of the father (i.e., God) is so
all-embracing that he joyfully welcomes anyone who turns to him from sin.
Certainly the parable shares this theme with the previous two.But in vv. 25–32 we see the “older son,” who considers himself righteous but rejects
his father’s generosity by resenting the reason for which it is offered. Some take the
older son to be “the Jews” and the younger “the Gentiles,” but context makes it more
reasonable to think of the older son as anyone who supposes God owes him something,
and the younger as anyone who knows he has sinned and therefore throws himself on
God’s mercy, accepting Yeshua as his only hope for salvation and forgiveness.Stern, D. H. (1996, c1992). Jewish New Testament Commentary :
A companion volume to the Jewish New Testament (electronic ed.)
(Lk 15:11). Clarksville: Jewish New Testament Publications.
I would be interested to know where you researched in order to come to the conclusion that the “Church” is called a brother. What do they mean by "Church"? The prodigal son does has an enormous dispensational message for those with eyes to see & ears to hear.
The prodigal son is about Jeremiah 31:31 - (the house of Isra’el & the house of Judah)
Jeremiah 31:31 [ A New Covenant ] “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—[NKJV]
You might want to read & research the post I just left on a couple of other threads that are bashing Mormons.
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/2793224/posts?page=16#16
You ain't seen nothing yet! The show will get very intense very soon!
Jeremiah 31:31 [ A New Covenant ] “Behold, the days are coming, says the LORD, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah—[NKJV]
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/religion/2793224/posts?page=16#16
IOW, it is the opinion of others minus independent study of the Scripture on your part
You seem to rip verses out of context to support your eisegesis.
shalom b'SHEM Yah'shua HaMashiach
Jer 31:34 "They will not teach again,
Shabbat Shalom
each man his neighbor and each man his brother,
saying, 'Know YHvH,
' for they will all know Me,
from the least of them to the greatest of them,"
declares YHvH,
"for I will forgive their iniquity,
and their sin I will remember no more."
Correct. Christ is the fulfillment of all the ancient prophecies, not their replacement. The technical term is typology.
Christianity is the New Covenant. But it does not replace and vacate the Old Covenant of Israel, it fulfills it. There are several place in the Bible where God tells Israel words to the effect that “My Covenant with you is forever.” The Jews may fall away and betray the Covenant, but God has promised that he will never abandon them. St. Paul (I forget exactly where) also declares that the Covenant is forever, although of course he converted, himself.
This does not mean that God does not welcome Jews into the Christian faith. But it does apparently mean that at least some Jews will remain, and will one day return from Exile and be welcomed back once more as God’s Chosen People.
what you posted still does not change the fact that YHVH did not make a covenant with pagan gentiles as pagan gentiles have always been welcome to leave their false religion & religious practices behind in order join the House of YHVH & be one of the brethren.
Too bad modern Christianity worshiped body count over Scripture when they adopted & to this day, still keep those pagan practices that YHVH calls abomionations.
Not exactly either......more of the Matchmaker. ;o)
It’s not 2000 year old DOCTRINE in any circles I have traveled in. You might want to read the 11th chapter of Romans to see what Paul said about whether God is through with Israel.
On second thought, I’ll save you the trouble of looking it up.
Rom 11:1 I say then, Hath God cast away his people? God forbid. For I also am an Israelite, of the seed of Abraham, of the tribe of Benjamin.
Rom 11:2 God hath not cast away his people which he foreknew. Wot ye not what the scripture saith of Elias? how he maketh intercession to God against Israel, saying,
Rom 11:3 Lord, they have killed thy prophets, and digged down thine altars; and I am left alone, and they seek my life.
Rom 11:4 But what saith the answer of God unto him? I have reserved to myself seven thousand men, who have not bowed the knee to the image of Baal.
Rom 11:5 Even so then at this present time also there is a remnant according to the election of grace.
Rom 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then is it no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.
Rom 11:7 What then? Israel hath not obtained that which he seeketh for; but the election hath obtained it, and the rest were blinded
Rom 11:8 (According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear;) unto this day.
Rom 11:9 And David saith, Let their table be made a snare, and a trap, and a stumblingblock, and a recompence unto them:
Rom 11:10 Let their eyes be darkened, that they may not see, and bow down their back alway.
Rom 11:11 I say then, Have they stumbled that they should fall? God forbid: but rather through their fall salvation is come unto the Gentiles, for to provoke them to jealousy.
Rom 11:12 Now if the fall of them be the riches of the world, and the diminishing of them the riches of the Gentiles; how much more their fulness?
Rom 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office:
Rom 11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
Rom 11:15 For if the casting away of them be the reconciling of the world, what shall the receiving of them be, but life from the dead?
Rom 11:16 For if the firstfruit be holy, the lump is also holy: and if the root be holy, so are the branches.
Rom 11:17 And if some of the branches be broken off, and thou, being a wild olive tree, wert graffed in among them, and with them partakest of the root and fatness of the olive tree;
Rom 11:18 Boast not against the branches. But if thou boast, thou bearest not the root, but the root thee.
Rom 11:19 Thou wilt say then, The branches were broken off, that I might be graffed in.
Rom 11:20 Well; because of unbelief they were broken off, and thou standest by faith. Be not highminded, but fear:
Rom 11:21 For if God spared not the natural branches, take heed lest he also spare not thee.
Rom 11:22 Behold therefore the goodness and severity of God: on them which fell, severity; but toward thee, goodness, if thou continue in his goodness: otherwise thou also shalt be cut off.
Rom 11:23 And they also, if they abide not still in unbelief, shall be graffed in: for God is able to graff them in again.
Rom 11:24 For if thou wert cut out of the olive tree which is wild by nature, and wert graffed contrary to nature into a good olive tree: how much more shall these, which be the natural branches, be graffed into their own olive tree?
Rom 11:25 For I would not, brethren, that ye should be ignorant of this mystery, lest ye should be wise in your own conceits; that blindness in part is happened to Israel, until the fulness of the Gentiles be come in.
Rom 11:26 And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob:
Rom 11:27 For this is my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Rom 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the fathers’ sakes.
Rom 11:29 For the gifts and calling of God are without repentance.
Rom 11:30 For as ye in times past have not believed God, yet have now obtained mercy through their unbelief:
Rom 11:31 Even so have these also now not believed, that through your mercy they also may obtain mercy.
Rom 11:32 For God hath concluded them all in unbelief, that he might have mercy upon all.
Rom 11:33 O the depth of the riches both of the wisdom and knowledge of God! how unsearchable are his judgments, and his ways past finding out!
Rom 11:34 For who hath known the mind of the Lord? or who hath been his counsellor?
Rom 11:35 Or who hath first given to him, and it shall be recompensed unto him again?
Rom 11:36 For of him, and through him, and to him, are all things: to whom be glory for ever. Amen.
you need to travel in orthodox , historical Christian circles, not 19th century heredical ones.
i was going to post this same chapter to you.
stay with me now, let’s look at this logically.
we know from various passages only those in Christ will be saved. no salvation outside of the Body of Christ. hopefully we can all agree on that.
now, we also know the Church is the Body of Christ, again hopefully we can all agree on that.
now, Romans 11:26 says and so all Israel shall be saved.
see a pattern yet?
Body of Christ = all that shall be saved = the Church = Israel
we know all corporate Israel ( Jewish DNA ) will not be saved, Jesus Himself said as much in John when He told them unless they believed that I am He ( John 8:24 )
furthermore, Paul tells us earlier in Romans 2:29 who is the real Jew.
Galatians 6:11-16 tells us the Church is the Israel of God.
and finally Galatians 3:29 tells us if you are Christ’s, you are heirs to the promises made to Abraham.
it could not be any clearer, it is orthodox Christian doctrine. beware of this 19th century invention you seem to hold to.
Israel was— before christians were...Israel would have to be the older brother, but to me it doesn’t seem to fit...it seems to be for an individual that repents...
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