Replies

We believe nearly everything you just posted. [47Samurai, post #44 to fishtank]

Well, let's review Fishtank's list, shall we?

The true Jesus is the CREATOR of the whole universe...Everything was CREATED BY HIM.

Yes, Mormons believe that Jesus and the Father are co-creators. The problem comes with how Mormons define the word "create." When Mormons use the word "create" -- they really mean "organize." They don't believe their gods had the power to "create" out of nothing ("ex-nihilo") -- and so they defy the writer of Hebrews, who wrote: "3 By faith we understand that the universe was formed at God’s command, so that what is seen was not made out of what was visible." (Heb. 11:3)

So, when Fishtank says, "Everything was created by him" -- that goes thru the Mormon word reorganizer machine and comes out in a Mormon's mind, "Everything was organized by him." Well, of course, Jesus is an organizer. But He's also the CREATOR (from nothing)!

And to that, well, that's not Mormon doctrine. Because Mormon doctrine states that all things are eternal. D&C 93:29,33 shows that not even mankind was in a sense "created" by God or Jesus: "Man was also in the beginning with God. Intelligence, or the light of truth, was not created or made, neither indeed can be...For man is spirit. The elements are eternal and spirit..."

Hence, the Mormon gods are not the true ex-nihilo creators of intelligence. They merely contributed celestial sex so that these intelligences could be translated into spirit kids, and then they sent them to earth to get their bodies.

Fishtank also cited Col. 1:15 -- "all things were created by him, and for him"

But whereas Christians believe Jesus created angels, including Lucifer. Mormons don't. Mormons reduce Jesus to being the elder spirit-bro of Lucifer. As a spirit-bro, he could hardly have created Lucifer. So Mormons make exceptions to Col. 1:15 about who Jesus created.