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To: Iscool; Mad Dawg
You know, MD, we have Jesus Himself and the Holy Spirit Himself making intercession for us in heaven. Now if God promises to hear and answer the prayer of two or more mere humans here on earth agreeing on anything, how much more Jesus and the Holy Spirit?

The problem with praying to *Saints* (those who have died and gone on before us who the RCC has canonized), is that unless they are omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent, they are going to be incapable of attending to and answering the prayers of multitudes simultaneously. Only an omniscient, omnipresent, and omnipotent, creator is capable of that kind of multitasking.

Not to mention, we are to consider Him our Abba- Daddy.

Luke 11:9-13 9And I tell you, ask, and it will be given to you; seek, and you will find; knock, and it will be opened to you. 10For everyone who asks receives, and the one who seeks finds, and to the one who knocks it will be opened. 11What father among you, if his son asks for a fish, will instead of a fish give him a serpent; 12or if he asks for an egg, will give him a scorpion? 13If you then, who are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will the heavenly Father give the Holy Spirit to those who ask him!"

John 14:12-14 12"Truly, truly, I say to you, whoever believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I am going to the Father. 13 Whatever you ask in my name, this I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son. 14 If you ask me anything in my name, I will do it.

John 16:22-27 22 So also you have sorrow now, but I will see you again, and your hearts will rejoice, and no one will take your joy from you. 23 In that day you will ask nothing of me. Truly, truly, I say to you, whatever you ask of the Father in my name, he will give it to you. 24Until now you have asked nothing in my name. Ask, and you will receive, that your joy may be full.

25"I have said these things to you in figures of speech. The hour is coming when I will no longer speak to you in figures of speech but will tell you plainly about the Father. 26In that day you will ask in my name, and I do not say to you that I will ask the Father on your behalf; 27 for the Father himself loves you, because you have loved me and have believed that I came from God. 28 I came from the Father and have come into the world, and now I am leaving the world and going to the Father."

Hebrews 4:14-16 14Since then we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast our confession. 15For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who in every respect has been tempted as we are, yet without sin. 16 Let us then with confidence draw near to the throne of grace, that we may receive mercy and find grace to help in time of need.

Romans 8:26-27 26Likewise the Spirit helps us in our weakness. For we do not know what to pray for as we ought, but the Spirit himself intercedes for us with groanings too deep for words. 27And he who searches hearts knows what is the mind of the Spirit, because the Spirit intercedes for the saints according to the will of God.

Romans 8:33-34 33Who shall bring any charge against God’s elect? It is God who justifies. 34 Who is to condemn? Christ Jesus is the one who died—more than that, who was raised— who is at the right hand of God, who indeed is interceding for us.

Hebrews 7:22-25 22This makes Jesus the guarantor of a better covenant. 23The former priests were many in number, because they were prevented by death from continuing in office, 24but he holds his priesthood permanently, because he continues forever. 25Consequently, he is able to save to the uttermost those who draw near to God through him, since he always lives to make intercession for them.

So why bother with the middle man? There's simply no valid point in going to and through saints when Jesus Himself told us that we have direct access to the Father Himself.

4,392 posted on 09/20/2011 5:56:03 PM PDT by metmom (For freedom Christ has set us free; stand firm therefore & do not submit again to a yoke of slavery)
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To: metmom; Iscool

First. the technical stuff.

They do not have to be omnipresent, omniscient, or omnipotent,to hear the prayers addressed to them. They DO have to have more power and more knowledge than we, but not all power and all knowledge.

Second, if we Catholics are right about time and eternity, they have all the time they need in the Petrine one day that is as a thousand years.

To your main point, I don’t think it is only Catholics who out up threads here asking for our prayers. If they are wrong, then we are wrong.

For gravy, it may be self-delusion, but I know a few people who claim to receive direct comfort and counsel from the Saints. Clearly, that happens through the Holy Spirit if it happens at all.

But if it happens, then we are talking about Spiritual friendships. Unless our direct access to Jesus manes friendships are obsolete, then such relationships could be great gifts.


4,395 posted on 09/20/2011 6:08:57 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (Jesus, I trust in you.)
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