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To: Jvette; Judith Anne
I tend to think it is more that a protestant must reject Mary or they will become Catholic and it is scary to move out of what you have been taught and believed all of your life.

As a "Protestant" allow me to answer that. I do not reject Mary nor do I believe any of us do. What I reject is the "believe it or be condemned" DOGMA that states - apart from any Scriptural authority - that she was sinless from birth, remained free from sin, was bodily assumed into Heaven, that she intercedes for us Christians here and/or in Purgatory (I don't believe in such a place but that is another thread topic entirely) or that she dispenses grace. I also do not believe in the title Mother of God, simply because it presumes God the Son needed a human mother of his divine nature. So I have no fear of being proved wrong and it upsetting my security in Christ.

In all truth, I think Catholics can believe whatever they want as long as they give up the claim that they alone are the one true church of Christ and that no one can be saved outside of her. When your Magesterium contrives doctrines apart from Scriptural warrant and makes unfailing obedience to those as a condition of salvation, then I think they have overstepped any authority they may have over all Christians.

So, it is not some form of jealousy or fear of suddenly falling into the Catholic trap that moves me to dispute Catholic doctrine about Mary or any other doctrines, it is a genuine concern that some people only know what they are told and they are taught to fear the very act of doubting or questioning. It seems as though it may be the other way around, some Catholics are afraid that if what they are assured is truth could be disproved, then they have grounds for questioning other teachings and, maybe, the Catholic Church really isn't all that it says it is.

One last thing, I do not condone crude and offensive comments from either side, although, I can certainly understand the temptation to respond in kind when that is the only way some chose to communicate. Respect reaps respect.

1,353 posted on 09/06/2011 8:39:45 PM PDT by boatbums ( God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to Him.)
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To: boatbums; Jvette; Judith Anne
"In all truth, I think Catholics can believe whatever they want as long as they give up the claim that they alone are the one true church of Christ and that no one can be saved outside of her."

It's actually none of any non-Catholic's business what Catholics believe. I only post on these threads to ensure that what is said about the Catholicism is truthful and accurate. Besides why do any non-Cathilics care what the Catholics believe if they don't put any credence in it? They go well out of their way on a daily basis to distance themselves from Catholic doctrine and then insist that Catholics have the right to only believe in the portions of our doctrines they agree with. Do they insist that the Hindu's give up portions of the Ramayana so they don't offend their sensibilities?

I'll repeat the crux of my initial post #5 that has been since been deleted. I am comforted that the Church does not compromise its doctrines to accommodate the ignorance and hatred of people like the anti-Catholics and the many other famous and not so famous ex-Catholics who pile on tho these threads

1,368 posted on 09/06/2011 9:12:04 PM PDT by Natural Law (For God so loved the world He did not send a book.)
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To: boatbums

Many protestants coming into the church have said that the doctrines about Mary are the hardest to accept. I believe fear of those doctrines holds back many who would come into or back to the Church.

If one believes that Jesus is fully and completely God, the doctrine is Scripturally sound that Mary is the Mother of God. To believe that Jesus as God was separate in some way from Jesus as Man is to believe a heresy. They were truly one, just as your body and soul are truly one. And God the Son did need a mother and His mother gave birth to one Jesus, who was fully God and fully man.

You reject the Church’s claim to being the one true Church because you reject what you believe are unSciprtural doctrines which she holds as binding on believers. Scripture is your authority. So, I ask you, did God personally come to you and give you your Bible and tell you that it is His Word and then fully reveal to you all that it means? Well, yes you might say! Of course, the Holy Spirit has done this for me.

That is the same claim the Church makes. So do I trust all those who reject the orthodoxy of the Church? And if I do, which one of the many do I trust? Myself alone? Trust in oneself alone leads to thousands of differing churches and doctrines and beliefs. No man comes to belief on his own, if you are not one of those who followed Jesus, you have heard His Good News preached to you by a man. And you have formed your beliefs through the exegesis of men. To say otherwise is to be in denial.

“Lean not to your own understanding, but trust in the Lord.” Jesus said to Peter, “ Blessed are you, Simon for flesh and blood have not revealed this to you but my Father in heaven. You are rock and upon this rock I will build my church. I will give you the keys of the kingdom. Whatever you bind on earth, shall be bound in heaven and whatever you loose on earth, shall be loosed in heaven.”

I agree that some Catholics fear being doubtful, but if they use those doubts to further their understanding, then those doubts will have served God’s purpose. Even Peter doubted and asked Jesus to help him in his unbelief.


1,385 posted on 09/06/2011 9:44:11 PM PDT by Jvette
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