Posted on 09/02/2011 9:07:47 AM PDT by marshmallow
I've never seen you or another Catholic say it wasn't...
From what we get by reading you guys is that other than the Eucharist, you don't have access to Jesus, that you must go to Mary or one of your Saints and they will mediate for you...
Mary certainly has no grave. That is very telling.
Fortunately you do not set the standards or rules concerning opinions, nor are any individuals required to change their opinions or observations in "face of" that which you or others might present as an opposing opinion or a compilation of misconstrued "facts" twisted to support ones beliefs.
You have not answered my responses and have largely ignored my questions.
Correct.
Please stop referring to us as you guys - it is demeaning.
Of course we have access to Jesus whenever we want through prayer. Cloistered monks pray without stopping and also think of the beautiful liturgical hours.
There is no must about going to Mary or a saint - it is just fun. It like a big clique, and no one is left out.
Jesus loves His best friends - his mother, the saints and loves it when we love them too. He is expansive - He does not necessarily like this only Him approach.
From your Pope's prayers on the vatican site, which appears to differ from your take:
"It is a tradition that the Pope joins with the homage of the City, bringing Mary a basket of roses. These flowers express our love and devotion:.... the love and devotion of the Pope, of the Church of Rome and of the inhabitants of this City, who feel they are spiritual children of the Virgin Mary. .....we all desire to offer 'everything ' to our Mother,.... convinced that 'we could not have done anything without her' protection and without the graces that daily she obtains for us from God
It is she who leads our meditation; it is she who teaches us to pray. It is she who shows us the way to open our minds and hearts to the power of the Holy Spirit.
Mary! For all generations your name is a pledge of sure hope. Yes! Because as the great poet, Dante, wrote, for us mortals you are "a source of living hope"
......Anyone who turns to you discovers the beauty of truth and love and finds the path that leads to the Father's house. ..... watchful keeper of Italy and Europe.
...."Remain in the school of Mary." Take inspiration from' her teachings', seek to welcome and to preserve in your hearts the 'enlightenment that she, by divine mandate', sends you from on high.
Let us ask the Mother of God, ......,' to protect the lives of all Christians'. May she, 'who is the Star of Evangelization', guide our steps along the path towards the heavenly Kingdom
The Church once again holds up Mary to the world as a sign of sure hope and of the definitive victory of good over evil."
see post 4005..Prayers of the Pope concerning Mary
This is a very telling statement...This pope is not indwelt with the Holy Spirit...And obviously he knows it...
......Anyone who turns to you discovers the beauty of truth and love and finds the path that leads to the Father's house. ..... watchful keeper of Italy and Europe.
Let us ask the Mother of God, ......,' to protect the lives of all Christians'. May she, 'who is the Star of Evangelization', guide our steps along the path towards the heavenly Kingdom
Not a single mention of Jesus, our Saviour...
God, save me from that religion...
A tradition is not a “must” ...
Bringing a basket of roses to one’s mother is just sweet!!
Didn’t you ask your mother for things when you were little? What is wrong with it?? Nothing...
Mary said yes to the Holy Spirit - her fiat gave us Christ and we are all simply grateful.
It sure is. It tells me that no one felt it important enough to record even her death.
You Catholics cannot seriously think that any true Bible understanding person would take that as a basis for the importance you give Mary. Not once is she mentioned after Jesus ascension into heaven and you make her as important and in some cases more important then Jesus. That is preposterous.
Not only is the veneration you give Mary not scriptural it is anti scriptural.
Oh it’s a lot more then that. It’s a doctrine of the CC.
The Church has never formally defined whether she died or not, and the integrity of the doctrine of the Assumption would not be impaired if she did not in fact die, but the almost universal consensus is that she did die. Pope Pius XII, in Munificentissimus Deus (1950), defined that Mary, "after the completion of her earthly life" (note the silence regarding her death), "was assumed body and soul into the glory of heaven." [http://www.catholic.com/library/Immaculate_Conception_and_Assum.asp]
Although the doctrine of the Assumption of Mary may somewhat controversially [http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Assumption_of_Mary]
Pope Pius XII solemnly defined in Munificentissimus Deus on Nov. 1, 1950, that the "Immaculate Mother of God, the ever-virgin Mary, having completed the course of her earthly life, was assumed body and soul into heavenly glory."
The Roman Church solemnly warns anyone who “should dare willfully to deny or to call into doubt that which we have defined (i.e. the Assumption), let him know that he has fallen away completely from the divine and Catholic Faith (Munificentissimus Deus).
And if you don’t think it’s important to Catholics you may need to consider some of these.
"Membership in the Militia means complete dedication to the Kingdom of God and to the salvation of souls through Mary Immaculate." -Pope John Paul II
"We have an advocate in Mary that the father, Son, and Holy Spirit cannot say no to. It is impossible for them to say no to her! -Fr. Stephan Scheier
Pope John Paull II has 'dedicated himself and his Pontificate to Our Lady.' He bears the letter "M" for Mary in his coat of arms. And his personal motto, which is embroidered on the side of his robes in Latin is the following: "TOTUS TUUS SUM MARIA", which in English translates to: "MARY, I'M ALL YOURS."
"Oh Lady, you are the refuge of all the abandoned; behold me here and now abandoned by all. You are my only hope. You alone are my only hope; you alone can help me; have pity on me." [Taken from the Glories of Mary. Chapter 7, Page 132. By St. Alphonsus Liguori. He was declared "Venerable", 4 May, 1796; was beatified in 1816, and canonized in 1839. In 1871, he was declared a Doctor of the Church.]
“Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” John 6:28-29
Yes you nailed it - the Church has done a hideous job of teaching the Faith.
The Baltimore catechism is very easy to understand. They threw it out -
Why? The smoke of satan entered the church in the 60’s.
We agree - Jesus did the work of God on the cross because He was/is both divine and human in His Person.
He did not do our work for us though.
What about Phil 2:12 - with fear and trembling work out your salvation?
You can’t just ignore scripture.
A son loves his mother, presumably. Mary is not more important - yet her role is key!!! She raised him.
That is why we love her - we just love her because she did lots of hard work.
She was at the base of the cross, by the way, and there were only a few who could bear to watch.
That’s right, we can’t.
“Then said they unto him, What shall we do, that we might work the works of God? Jesus answered and said unto them, This is the work of God, that ye believe on him whom he hath sent.” John 6:28-29
Mary did die - her body was perfect however and went to heaven.
All of us will be raised on the last day with our bodies on the second coming if we deserve it.
Certain saints have bodies that are not corrupt. St. Bernadette is still perfect in a glass casket in France.
Henry Newman is not corrupt under the basilica in Philadelphia.
I have already posted to you many verses from scripture verses beliefs by Catholics. The beliefs of Catholics regarding Mary are against scripture thus anti scripture. Ignore it at your own peril.
LOL You and your myths would be funny if it weren’t so sad.
Dear Bear - Mary is our Mother - Jn 19:26.
We can have a mother and a Savior at the same time.
He loved her and so can we.
The difference is, unfortunately,(unfortunate for those who don’t see it) that catholics worship Jesus during the sacrifice of the mass. Therefore we have room to love the others (saints, etc,)
If there is no mass, then confusion comes in because the worship seems the same. It is not. The true worship is in the mass and then we have room for the rest of the family.
That is you proof that Mary is your mother? You can’t be serious. Catholic beliefs are many times built on myth and human emotion it seems to me. There certainly is no scriptural proof of many of their beliefs.
>>He loved her and so can we.
What the CC does with and to Mary is much more then simply love her. You’re kidding only yourself if you think it is. You’re certainly not kidding me. It seems to me that what you know about the RCC official position on Mary is sorely lacking.
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