Posted on 09/02/2011 9:07:47 AM PDT by marshmallow
Minneapolis, Minnesota (CNN) –Prior to 2006, few people even knew that then-Minnesota state legislator Keith Ellison was a Muslim. Because of his English name, he said, no one thought to ask.
But five years ago, when he ran for a seat in the United States House of Representatives - a race he would go on to win - word of his religious affiliation began to spread.
“When I started running for Congress it actually took me by surprise that so many people were fascinated with me being the first Muslim in Congress,” said Ellison, a Democrat now serving his third term in the House.
“But someone said to me, ‘Look Keith, think of a person of Japanese origin running for Congress six years after Pearl Harbor–this might be a news story.’”
Though Ellison's status as the first Muslim elected to Congress is widely known, fewer are aware that he was born into a Catholic family in Detroit and was brought up attending Catholic schools.
But he said he was never comfortable with that faith.
“I just felt it was ritual and dogma,” Ellison said. “Of course, that’s not the reality of Catholicism, but it’s the reality I lived. So I just kind of lost interest and stopped going to Mass unless I was required to.”
It wasn’t until he was a student at Wayne State University in Detroit when Ellison began, “looking for other things.”
(Excerpt) Read more at religion.blogs.cnn.com ...
That was funny - let us all lighten up
Exactly, but perhaps too many ex-Catholics and cradle anti-Catholics are envious of the special status achieved by (yes achieved, not simply bestowed on) Mary to concede her very special status.
Every soul is worth hearing -
Every soul is worth hearing -
In Jn 14;16 Jesus promises to send the Advocate who has guided Christianity for 2000 years. Without a Spirit guided Magisterium there would be no Church for Christianity would have disappeared shortly after the Ascension
I constantly deal with probative evidence and can see the sheer brilliance in Jesus slowly guiding the formation of a Church possessing a Magisterium not tens of thousands of discrete churches each interpreting scripture in its own manner.
In Jn 17:21 He prayed for unity.
Do you think this board reflects the unity Jesus prayed for in that verse
How can so many divisions reflect the essence of His prayer?
After over 2500 posts on this thread what has been accomplished? Certainly not the Will of the Lord whose prayer in Jn 17:21 is thwarted by the pride of those who must have their own interpretation. I wonder why this is so. Could Satan have entered their hearts?
For starters, the thief on the cross next to Jesus who was promised paradise was most likely Jewish.
Even if not,there is much to explore here. I am confused about the tribulation/rule with Christ/?
The second coming will be definitive - (It will include the Jews who convert - perhaps at the last minute?)
I am more comforted than I was a week ago that the ugliness and un-Christlike behavior characterized by the anti-Catholics on this thread remains a barrier to their Communion with the Church. They certainly provides evidence that "extra ecclesiam nulla salus" has merit.
I understand your problem...Appears you think we are lying when we say these things because you know you are not saved...You are not one of the sheep...You are not indwelt with nor are led of the Holy Spirit...You do not have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ...That's what it looks like to me...
I was like you for a short part of my life...I turned to Jesus and asked him to save me...
Covenants, laws, and promises still pertaineth to Israel.
Romans 9:4 Who are Israelites; to whom pertaineth the adoption, and the glory, and the covenants, and the giving of the law, and the service of God, and the promises;
They have been made “enemies for our sakes to allow for the period of grace but they are still the “elect” of the Father.
Romans 11:28 As concerning the gospel, they are enemies for your sakes: but as touching the election, they are beloved for the father's sakes.
In the following verse could you replace Israel with church? The church which is the bride of Christ is already saved. Israel as a people is still separate.
Romans 10:1 Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
Look at what would have to happen for Israel to not be a “nation”.
Jeremiah 31:35 Thus saith the LORD, which giveth the sun for a light by day, and the ordinances of the moon and of the stars for a light by night, which divideth the sea when the waves thereof roar; The LORD of hosts is his name:
36 If those ordinances depart from before me, saith the LORD, then the seed of Israel also shall cease from being a nation before me for ever.
37 Thus saith the LORD; If heaven above can be measured, and the foundations of the earth searched out beneath, I will also cast off all the seed of Israel for all that they have done, saith the LORD.
Is the sun still there giving light by day? Is the moon still there? Can heaven be measured? Have the foundations of the earth all been searched? NO? Then Israel is still a singled out nation before God.
Then look at Ezekiel 37. Never has Israel been just one nation. It has always been Judah and Israel. God promised that they would one day be one nation together. Even today they are still not one nation. Judah is still considered a separate nation. God is currently returning them to the land He promised them.
Ezekiel 37:21 And say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the children of Israel from among the heathen, whither they be gone, and will gather them on every side, and bring them into their own land:
22 And I will make them one nation in the land upon the mountains of Israel; and one king shall be king to them all: and they shall be no more two nations, neither shall they be divided into two kingdoms any more at all.
>>Without a Spirit guided Magisterium there would be no Church for Christianity would have disappeared shortly after the Ascension<<
Wow! So you think God would have been helpless without the RCC? Is that what you are saying?
I remember from my replacement theology or if you prefer grace covenant days that we are right now as we type posts on FR in fact in both the great tribulation and the millennium at the same time. Am I correct in this understanding? Is this your current position? Is it a sect of replacement theology? I am just curious. I do not intend to make a big deal out of your answers.
I think you are confusing dispensationalism with replacementrianism. Replacement Theology and Covenant Theology profess that the Church has become the New Israel. Dispensationalism is the belief that Dispensationalism is a theological development based on a that sees a series of chronologically successive "dispensations" or periods in history in which God relates to human beings in differently under different Biblical covenants.
Does it matter? Does it matter who wrote Hebrews? It has not mattered thus far. What matters is that the Church has declared it to be Canon.
Only after you tell me why this in particular is so important to you. Mad Dawg and other converts have interesting stories about their overwhelming resistance to converting because of the Protestant ideas regarding Mary, and then when they finally do convert, why then, the scales drop from their eyes.
Tell me. PM me if you'd rather.
I’m sorry you don’t claim the gifts of God that He clearly has said were gifts to us. Praise His name!
You see, you illustrate the differences again. Catholics do not name it and claim it. They accept the freely given Grace of God.
We don't grab it; we don't wrest it; we don't snatch it; we don't demand it; and we certainly don't claim it.
We are beggars at God's banquest and we humbly beg Him for what He may bestow upon us. We do not prate of our salvation for that is only His to give. Rather, we accept whatever the Righteous Judge decides to give to us:
Luke 11: 11Then he said, “A man had two sons, 12and the younger son said to his father, ‘Father, give me the share of your estate that should come to me.’ So the father divided the property between them. 13After a few days, the younger son collected all his belongings and set off to a distant country where he squandered his inheritance on a life of dissipation.g 14When he had freely spent everything, a severe famine struck that country, and he found himself in dire need. 15So he hired himself out to one of the local citizens who sent him to his farm to tend the swine. 16And he longed to eat his fill of the pods on which the swine fed, but nobody gave him any. 17Coming to his senses he thought, ‘How many of my father’s hired workers have more than enough food to eat, but here am I, dying from hunger. 18I shall get up and go to my father and I shall say to him, “Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you. 19I no longer deserve to be called your son; treat me as you would treat one of your hired workers.”’ 20So he got up and went back to his father. While he was still a long way off, his father caught sight of him, and was filled with compassion. He ran to his son, embraced him and kissed him. 21His son said to him, ‘Father, I have sinned against heaven and against you; I no longer deserve to be called your son.’
We are the prodigal sons. We deserve nothing and throw ourselves upon the mercy of the Merciful One. We pray for salvation.
Well, let’s look at who He was praying would have unity.
John 17:2 As thou hast given him power over all flesh, that he should give eternal life to as many as thou hast given him.
“as many as thou hast given him” is who it’s talking about. His church, or all those who the Father has chosen.
He then goes on to identify who that is.
John 17: 3And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent.
Looks like there is no organization, no organized religion, or church “heroes” or leadership. Only that they know (as in believe in) God and Jesus Christ.
So when you ask if there is Unity. You first have to identify who those people are. It’s not all Catholics nor is it all Protestants.
So my answer to your question is that we can’t answer that question. There may be total unity of those who are truly His.
>>Could Satan have entered their hearts?<<
LOL Is that a telling statement or a real question? I think you had better define the group or individuals that you think “their” refers to.
I understand your problem
Unlikely. But let us proceed as if there is a chance of it.
Appears you think we are lying when we say these things because you know you are not saved
I do not think that you are lying.
You are not one of the sheep
I rest my case. The unlikely has progressed to the negative.
You are not indwelt with nor are led of the Holy Spirit
I'm surprised that you need a personal Lord and Saviour. You seem to be arranging your salvation all by yourself. A day care child finding cookies and milk on a table when nobody else is around. And then bragging about it.
You do not have a personal relationship with Jesus Christ.
I am not the one claiming to be, or supplant, Jesus Christ in arranging my own salvation.
That's what it looks like to me
You must get new glasses.
I was like you for a short part of my life
An engineering manager?
I turned to Jesus and asked him to save me
Did He turn you into an accountant?
It most certainly matters. Hebrews, to use your example, was written by Paul. The other books were written by the other Apostles. It was the Apostles who learned directly from Jesus and who Jesus said would be given “remembrance” by the Holy Spirit to write accurately. No other on earth was given that promise.
>>What matters is that the Church has declared it to be Canon.<<
No it isn’t. God may have used the church fathers at one point to get to us what He wanted taught but keep in mind that He has used Satan to bring us teaching as He did with Job. And don’t go getting you panties in a wad, I’m not equating the RCC with Satan I just used and example. The RCC has also including teaching that is not what was brought to the Apostles remembrance to write such as my example of the bodily assumption of Mary. My main point is that the only people who Jesus said would be given “remembrance” by the Holy Spirit were the Apostles. Those would be the writers that I would have reliance on and none other.
Let's be clear on one point. The Catholic Church never tortured or executed anyone. It was always a Civil Authority. Look it up.
Who "owned" the Civil Authorities you ask? Why the Catholic Church did.
As Roseannadanna used to say; "Never Mind"!
If this is before your time just Google Gilda Radner and "Never Mind".
Better yet watch this clip. Never Mind
Meaning...WHAT...exactly? You trust God to save you because...what? God has promised that he would save believers from the wrath to come. Because they believed..what?
"For by grace are ye saved through faith, and that not of yourselves, it is the gift of God, not of works, lest any man should boast." Eph.2:8,9.
Faith in what?
What is the "saving power of Faith in the Trinity"? Scriptures would be helpful.
I included Mark in this because you both seemed irritated by crickets.
How many times are you going to deflect from answering that question? Anyway, because if it isn’t true it’s a false teaching. If a false teaching is such a large part of the RCC religion it’s serious. Jesus didn’t teach it, the Apostles didn’t teach it so I believe it is a false teaching. Scripture is very plain how to deal with those who teach heresies.
2 Peter 2:1 But there were false prophets also among the people, even as there shall be false teachers among you, who privily shall bring in damnable heresies, even denying the Lord that bought them, and bring upon themselves swift destruction.
Matthew 7:15 Beware of false prophets, which come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravening wolves.
2 Corinthians 11:13 For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ. 14 And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light.
It’s not good enough to use as justification for a teaching that “it could have been” or “others were so we are going to say she was also”. If the veneration of Mary was as important as it is to the RCC surely Jesus and the Apostles would have taught it and written to make sure there was no misunderstanding.
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