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To: CynicalBear; HarleyD; GiovannaNicoletta; OKSooner; aruanan; smvoice

Let’s look at each of those 3 scriptures:

“1Therefore, since we are surrounded by so great a cloud of witnesses, let us also lay aside every weight, and sin which clings so closely, and let us run with endurance the race that is set before us, 2looking to Jesus, the founder and perfecter of our faith, who for the joy that was set before him endured the cross, despising the shame, and is seated at the right hand of the throne of God.” - Hebrews 12

Does that say Jesus gives faith as a gift to some, and denies it to others? Does it say ‘the elect’ cannot fall away? Not hardly.

Is there any doubt that Jesus is the Foundation of our faith, and the founder? We believe in the revelation of God in Jesus, God incarnate. Of course he is the founder of our faith! God reaches down to us. We do not reach up and compel God to do squat. If God had not promised to save those who repent and ask forgiveness, we would have NOTHING, and no excuse either. It is all God’s grace!

And do we count on Jesus to bring us safely home? I hope so! Like Peter on the water, it is when we take our eyes off of Jesus that we fall.

Romans 12 - and quoting this showed true desperation on your part -

“1 I appeal to you therefore, brothers, by the mercies of God, to present your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and acceptable to God, which is your spiritual worship. 2 Do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewal of your mind, that by testing you may discern what is the will of God, what is good and acceptable and perfect.

3For by the grace given to me I say to everyone among you not to think of himself more highly than he ought to think, but to think with sober judgment, each according to the measure of faith that God has assigned. 4For as in one body we have many members, and the members do not all have the same function, 5so we, though many, are one body in Christ, and individually members one of another.”

First, I have repeatedly said that it is all based on the grace of God, reaching down to us. But faith - not grace, but faith - is our response to God. Or not. And if not, we shall be condemned (”Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.”).

But the grace talked about here is not saving grace, but the grace God showed Paul in making him an Apostle. It references his authority to the church, and to write scripture. It does NOT reference salvation, and it is not a claim that saving faith is a gift given by God against our possible will.

Acts 14:

“25And when they had spoken the word in Perga, they went down to Attalia, 26and from there they sailed to Antioch, where they had been commended to the grace of God for the work that they had fulfilled. 27And when they arrived and gathered the church together, they declared all that God had done with them, and how he had opened a door of faith to the Gentiles. 28And they remained no little time with the disciples.”

That passage contradicts your Calvinism, for it says God “opened a door of faith” to the Gentiles. Yes, it means God decided by his grace to extend salvation to the Gentiles! And to enter that salvation, they would come in thru the “door of faith”! Or as Paul put it in his letter to the Romans, “Through him we have also obtained access by faith into this grace in which we stand...”

That is what we have been telling you. Grace is offered to all - Jews and Gentiles alike - and the door is faith. If we believe, then we have entered thru the door provided by God. If we do not, we have refused to enter into his salvation.

As Peter preached at Pentecost: “Save yourselves from this crooked generation.” - Acts 2:40.


167 posted on 08/28/2011 9:13:41 AM PDT by Mr Rogers ("they found themselves made strangers in their own country")
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To: Mr Rogers; HarleyD; GiovannaNicoletta; OKSooner; aruanan; smvoice
>> Does it say ‘the elect’ cannot fall away? Not hardly.<<

John 10:29 My Father, which gave them me, is greater than all; and no man is able to pluck them out of my Father's hand.

Would you agree that Satan is the one who “tries to pluck them out”. Does it not say that no one will be able to? Even someone used by Satan?

>> Romans 12 - and quoting this showed true desperation on your part -<<

Oh really? “according to the measure of faith that God has assigned.” God has assigned faith.
You are going to twist and distort to you own meaning most everything so I would suggest we discontinue this.

173 posted on 08/28/2011 9:36:03 AM PDT by CynicalBear
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