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To: editor-surveyor; Cvengr; Salvation
A martyr is a witness of Christ. A person who, though he has never seen nor heard the Divine Founder of the Church, is yet so firmly convinced of the truths of the Christian religion, that he gladly suffers death rather than deny it. Definitionally, a martyr is a witness. In application, it has come to be synonymous with those who witness unto death. The term has also been applied to those who have given up the living of their lives (suffering, imprisonment, grave hardship) for the cause of Christianity.

For whom does a martyr sacrifice? Clearly, the martyr sacrifices for his faith in Jesus... but it is more than that. Faith in Jesus isn't simply trusting Who He Is... it is trusting in His Mission here on Earth. Jesus came to call all men to Himself. He opened the Gates of Heaven and sent us out to preach, teach and to Baptize in the Name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. In the martyr's witness is the reconciliation of sinners. As Salvation already pointed out to you, the martyr's prayer is for the salvation of his oppressors. What would it profit a martyr to desire the punishment of his punishers? Clearly, you can see the power of the martyr in this simple question. In living the second greatest commandment, the martyr doesn't desire that his oppressor lose Heaven but rather that his sacrifice might gain their salvation.

Earlier, editor-surveyor said that "Only a sinless man could pay for another’s sin. - That is the premise of the entire Bible." Is it? I read somewhere that we are the Body of Christ (1 Cor 12:12-14) and where He led is where we must also go. We are to take up our own crosses and follow Him (Matt 16:24). The resounding message of the Bible is that salvation is ongoing through the sacrifices of Christ's Body in the world... the Church. Christ is the Lamb of God offered as the Sacrifice of the New Covenant through which we have been reborn to God's Holy Family. There is no further sacrifice to reforge this bond. However, history shows that sacrifices continue in the sufferings of the martyrs... that is because, as the Body of Christ, the Church continues His Work in the salvation of souls! We participate in these sacrifices with our time, talent and treasures. In these sacrifices, we are participating in the life of the Church and furthering Her Mission. We give of our talents and treasure in what we can do and what we have. We give of our time in spending it with others, in study and in prayer.

What converted the Roman Empire? The blood of the martyrs. Throughout history, this is how those who persecuted the Church have come to join with Her. It is also how many great theologians have been formed (the sacrifices of St Monica for St Augustine). Indeed, from St Augustine's Confessions we read: "In place of a basket filled with fruits of the earth, she had learned to bring to the oratories of the martyrs a heart full of purer petitions, and to give all that she could to the poor - so that the communion of the Lord's body might be rightly celebrated in those places where, after the example of his passion, the martyrs had been sacrificed and crowned." - 6.2.2

In denying our ability to sacrifice for the sins of others, you deny our identity as the Body of Christ.

These thoughts are mine formed through my understanding of the teachings of the Church. I pray that any defects in my explanation or understanding may not lead any other to stumble.

"Let us rejoice then and give thanks that we have become not only Christians, but Christ himself. Do you understand and grasp, brethren, God's grace toward us? Marvel and rejoice: we have become Christ. For if he is the head, we are the members; he and we together are the whole man.... the fullness of Christ then is the head and the members. But what does 'head and members' mean? Christ and the Church."

-- St Augustine

87 posted on 07/18/2011 9:35:41 AM PDT by pgyanke (Republicans get in trouble when not living up to their principles. Democrats... when they do.)
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To: pgyanke

The Blood of Christ is sufficient for my faith,...no need to add any other’s to it.


88 posted on 07/18/2011 10:34:24 AM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: pgyanke; Cvengr; Salvation

Youe wordy reply twists and turns and runs through rabbit holes to god knows where, and turns God’s perfect word on its head.

Every human but Christ is a sinner, some forgiven, but none the less a sinner, and incapable of paying for their own sin, let alone others’.


92 posted on 07/18/2011 11:48:50 AM PDT by editor-surveyor (Going 'EGYPT' - 2012!)
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