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To: dartuser
It doesn't, your passage shows one case where one verse was hard for someone to understand. What you are trying to do is extrapolate that into "the whole Bible is not understandable without a teacher." I suggest you go through Psalm 119.

I have read Psalm 119 and understand it very well. You do realize that it was written at time when God's plan for the redemption of man was still hidden, right? It was not until the revelation of Christ that the Old Testament truly made perfect sense. We understood the Law and God's commands to us... but we didn't understand His plan until revealed by Christ. Even Christ's own disciples failed to understand even after His Death... He had to open their eyes to all that the Old Testament had proclaimed about Him before they could understand. Even then, they still failed to recognize Him until the breaking of the bread. You see, Scripture wasn't enough for them to understand... explanations weren't even enough for them to fully understand... it was only in the application of worship that their eyes were opened. That is what you find in the Liturgy of the Church. The Scriptures weren't meant for private interpretation, they were meant for public proclamation. Their home is the Liturgy of the Church where the Scriptures are fully realized.

So lemme get this straight. You maintain that the Jews read, followed, obeyed, listened to, taught their children from their own personal copy of the scriptures (or the Torah portions, whatever) ... but they couldn't understand them without the teachers?

Do you remember Jesus's answer to the lawyer's question about which is the greatest commandment? Jesus didn't reference the Ten Commandments or the Law of Moses... He pointed back to what animates the Law from Deut 6:5... Love. There, in their own Scriptures was the underpinning of the "new commandment" given by Christ but they did not recognize it fully until explained by Him. The Bible is clear when understood but private (and sometimes erroneous) interpretation muddies the waters and prevents us from being One as Christ is One with His Heavenly Father. This is the unity Christ wanted for us... One in Faith... and you don't get there without common teaching.

Seems to me it was the TEACHERS of Israel that didn't believe in Christ ... and the common disciple folks who did. Sorry, Psalm 19:7 still applies.

Actually, it was the leaders of the people (who feared the loss of their own authority) who rejected Our Lord. Those who were open to His Teaching, came to understand that He was the One promised by God. There were teachers among the people who weren't far from the Kingdom of God (Nicodemus and others)... but they still needed further instruction from Our Lord. I point out this instruction because Scripture is easily misunderstood--if not taught--even by those who study it the most.

So Paul the teacher wrote the epistles to correct ... but we cant understand that correction by reading it, we need another teacher to tell us what the teacher wrote?

He wrote to the churches about issues in those churches. Obviously, these letters were copied and sent to other churches. Clearly, there would need to be some explanation by someone at some point when confronted with the Letter to the Romans and the Letter of St James. In the former, we read that we are saved by our belief (Romans 10:9). In the latter we read that we are not saved by faith alone (James 2:24). There is a very good reconciliation between the two and Scripture is not contradicted... but it needs to be taught to be understood.

What principalities? Which principalities are you talking about?

Is this a joke or are just trying to challenge everything I write?

89 posted on 07/14/2011 11:17:09 AM PDT by pgyanke (Republicans get in trouble when not living up to their principles. Democrats... when they do.)
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To: pgyanke
I have read Psalm 119 and understand it very well.

So you read it ... and you understand it? Don't you mean you read it, asked your teacher to explain it to you, and now you understand it? I would ask for a new teacher, the first 30 verses decimate your view.

it was only in the application of worship that their eyes were opened. That is what you find in the Liturgy of the Church.

Hmm ...

What principalities? Which principalities are you talking about?

Is this a joke or are just trying to challenge everything I write?

Ah no, I was trying to figure out what the heck you're talking about here. You said the function of the Church is to teach principalities ... tell me what that means.

90 posted on 07/14/2011 12:04:18 PM PDT by dartuser ("If you are ... what you were ... then you're not.")
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To: pgyanke
Congratulations! You too can suffer with the fruits of their prideful interpretations.Can't you see that after many years of discussing the "Brothers of Jesus" topic on this forum and being told that Jesus spoke Aramaic which has no specific word for brother, your argument is ignored and fails to resonate. The entrusting of Mary to the Apostle John is likewise dismissed without comment. I wonder why? This topic is usually entitled "Was Mary a Perpetual Virgin", and can last for many hundred of responses.Yet the sin of pride envelopes their minds and so no progress is made.

The inquiry involving the "Eunuch" sheds much light on their spiritual disposition. The argument you made relates that Phillip was referenced to make adequate explanation but that was YOUR position. The other side made what is known in legal parlance as " An admission against self interest". Look, if they don't' understand that their argument is validating your contention, how can you expect them to open their hearts to Jesus and accept His words bereft of their self imposed prideful interpretations.

These types would do well to ponder and peruse Ps 135:16 and Mk 8:18. Your references to the Lawyer and to Nicodemus are on point , adroit examples of your position yet they fall on deaf ears. When they utter such nonsense as "Look at context and not Pretext" you know that the aforementioned admonitions are relevant.

As one who made a living interpretating the most arcane and esoteric statutes of Caesar, I can attest that without extensive education in Greek Hebrew and Aramaic one would be lost and foolish to enter the arena of bibical interpretation. Therefore, we have a Magisterium directed by an indwelling of the Holy Spirit which the prideful rejects in favor of their own selfish desires. God bless and have patience with them

92 posted on 07/14/2011 12:52:01 PM PDT by bronx2 (while Jesus is the Alpha /Omega He has given us rituals which you reject to obtain the graces as to)
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