Posted on 06/14/2011 5:26:34 PM PDT by Salvation
I understand it well enough, but it's still a serious problem and it doesn't just affect Catholic and Orthodox believers, it's actually rampant, perhaps even more so if that's possible, within the mainline Protestant Churches as well. The problem stems from an adherence to Church doctrine, of whatever stripe, above an adherence to intellectual honesty as it pertains to the Scriptures. I say that not in an accusing manner though, but with an understanding that a reluctance to examine one's own cherished beliefs is natural and incredibly hard to overcome. Furthermore, it's not something that is solely limited to Catholic or Orthodox believers, or even Christians in general, but that it's a human trait present in all groups and across all religions. It doesn't make it any easier to deal with, but I do understand where it comes from.
All this is very true, but you're missing a couple of points. First, liberal mainline Protestant churches don't claim to be divinely-guided institutions with an unchanged and unchanging doctrine. The Catholics and Orthodox do. Furthermore Catholics and Orthodox believe in plenty of things just as "impossible" as the events of Genesis 1-11 yet they insist on them as dogmas while dismissing Genesis. Why do they do this?
I'll tell you why. It's sociology; nothing more, nothing less. They don't accept Genesis because Genesis is for "those people;" you know the ones. Inbred, bad teeth, live in trailer parks, their parents are siblings??? No one wants to be associated with those awful sub-human creatures, so Genesis is didactic mythology. Meanwhile Mary made the sun dance in Portugal in 1917, because that's different. That's a good "intellectual" miracle. Not like that Adam and Eve nonsense.
Do you see what I am getting at? Catholics and Orthodox, who represent the historical version of the chr*stian religion so under attack by liberals, join those liberals in attacking the most loyal chr*stians in the world because they're not "their kind of people." It's absolutely disgusting. Why should any Catholic or Orthodox chr*stian complain about liberal "chr*stophobia" when they treat their alleged "co-religionists" that way?
To be fair, the reason all Fundamentalist Protestants--who ordinarily can't agree on anything--all interpret Genesis 1-11 identically is also sociology. So it works both ways.
I don't know how long you've been on FR, but if you're new, you're going to be very hurt at seeing your "co-religionists" use the exact same language and terminology for you as the atheists and liberals do. And this from churches allegedly run directly from heaven. No wonder we're in such a mess.
Finally, the Catholic/Orthodox war on fundamentalism has made it possible for all religion to be written off as subjective ethno-cultural folklore which no one (except for "fanatics") takes seriously any more. Do you honestly think for one minute that we would be living in a world where people automatically dismiss "religion" as the grounds for any moral position whatsoever if Catholicism and Orthodoxy hadn't been waging war against those awful "fundamentalists" for decades? No. This is their fault. And they deserve the disasters their churches are going through.
Once upon a time it was understood that believing in a religion meant believing it was actually true in the mundane, factual sense of the word. Thanks to redneck-hating chr*stians we now live in a world where no one except dangerous lunatics believe such a thing.
May their pernicious souls rot half a grain a day.
The closer one gets to God's word as the only authority, the deeper the disdain for that person becomes. The easier the Bible is explained, in dispensations that make God's word suddenly become alive and available to anyone to grasp and grow, the deeper the mockery becomes. To show someone how to rightly divide God's word of truth, in order to see the beauty, the grace, the power, the simplicity, and the plan God has for man, the louder the wailing and gnashing become. When I first came aboard I thought there would be a Rightly Dividing party every night, questions and questions and that moment the lightbulb would go on with someone, we would all thank God for His grace and mercy in bringing us all together.
That's not quite how it's worked out. It's more a "I'm standing here with nothing but my Bible" and in rolls the carts of doctrines and traditions, and catechisms, all ready to do battle to destroy the "doctrine from hell' as dispensationalism is called. And yet, here I stand proving point after point to anyone with any desire to understand. Just me and my KJ Bible. Don't they see something REAL that can change their life? Don't they want to be a workman for God, that needeth not to be ashamed? They see it and hear it every day. And disdain it. It cannot be right because we have 2 Billion people and you have Bible Studies in your local Denny's. or whatever. Look at our beautiful Cathedrals and what do you say you worship in? Believers houses. 'hmmmmm' We, as dispensationalists, are the lowest of the low on the religious system hiearchy.I am not complaining, just amazed at the caste system and its no need for truth yet desperation to hold on to the lies. At ALL cost.
Anyway, thank you for you wonderful posts. They open eyes who want to see.
Well, I don’t know what to say, as I am neither a dispensationalist, a Protestant (”sola scriptura”), nor a chr*stian. I simply believe that G-d doesn’t lie. Why only dispensationalist Protestants understand that these days I have no idea.
... Which is all you need to say. Which is all we ALL need to remember. And say. Thanks again for your terrific posts. smvoice
how can there be a “rightly dividing the word party every night”, when you are the only one in 2,000 years who is able to rightly understand the Scriptures, especially the Book of Acts?
what really is needed is for you to post your brilliance, and the rest of us will become enlightened. we all just need to throw off 2,000 years of Orthodox, Biblical Christianity, and accept your rightly dividing the Word. truly we all are blessed to be living at the same time as you, it’s a shame all the other Christians who lived for the last 2,000 never had the chance to rightly divide the Word.
you come across someone who admits to not believing in Jesus Christ and not being in His Body, and you tell him all he needs to say is God doesn’t lie? yet you attack Orthodox Biblical beliefs!! very interesting.
Your screen name leaves off one very important Person. One Spirit. Who would lead you into understanding the one baptism that you misunderstand, too. So, you see, any advice you offer, when compared with your screen name offenses, would leave no room for anything but arguing back and forth. Rather, you would be better served to take your posts to someone who believes respect is to be earned. Good luck
if you were part of the Church, you would know no one can say Jesus is Lord, except by the Holy Spirit.
If I were part of which, the Church the Body of Christ, or your Church?
it’s like asking “are you referring to George W. Bush or the 43rd President of the US.”
Since the Church the Body of Christ and the Dispensation of the grace of God is practically all I speak of, either you are being disengenious, or so spiritually blinded you cannot comprehend what is clearly stated. Over and over.
As far as Zionist Conspirator goes, that hardly is your business to get your rosary in a wad over. See, I have a lot of respect for him. He is honest about what be believes, and does not suffer fools lightly. The kind of fools who would attempt to silence and beat down those who dare to disagree with and stand up to man-made religious systems of lies, deceit, and total control over their members.
And how did you become a member in your Church?
LOL! don’t own a rosary, maybe i need to go buy one.
no one is trying to silence anyone, i merely point out that the odds of one poster on FR coming to a correct understanding of the Book of Acts, that no one has understood for 2,000 years, is rather remote, don’t you agree? the sin of pride is very appealing and boy does the devil love to seduce fools with it.
That no one has understood for 2,000 years? Surely you say that in jest. Anyone with a KJBible, the Holy Spirit residing in him, the FINISHED WORK of CHRIST as his remission of sins, and the desire to study God’s word of truth rightly divided can get it. It’s just easier for most to put their Bible down and count on others to tell him what it says. Your choice. But laziness is no excuse.
how does anyone become a member of the Body of Christ, The Church?
1 Corinthians 12:13 “for by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body....”
Galatians 3:27 “for as many of you who were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.
I am happy to share orthodox, historical, biblical Christianity with you.
And as I. But the Scriptures you gave is a Spiritual Baptism, whereby the Holy Spirit, when we accept Christ as our Savior, spiritually baptizes unto into the Body of Christ. Just like the circumcision described, the circumcision made without hands, a spiritual circumcision. It has nothing whatsoever to do with water. Unless you are taught that the water actually becomes the Holy Spirit. Is this what you believe?
Christians have been baptizing for 2,000 years, following the command of Jesus in Matthew 28:19.
you are the first one to realize baptism was done away with by Paul in the Book of Acts. no one other than you teaches this ( that i am aware of ), so yes, in your eyes, no one has understood this for 2,000 years. and to think, i have the honor of communicating with you!
This is exactly why your postings grow old, very quickly. Instead of actually reading the Scriptures I give to back up my claims, you dismiss them immediately and give broad answers that you back up with traditions. To top it all off, you finish your posts with a flippant comment that serves nothing but to create enmity. Then you begin the process again. You really aren’t interested in perhaps finding truth, you are interested in arguing for arguments sake. It makes true dialogue impossible, and even reaching a respect level reserved for those who know they will never agree, yet respect the other’s stand for what they believe is right.
if you were rightly dividing the Word, you would realize the Scriptures clearly teach in Ephesians 4:5 there is only One baptism. The Scriptures do not anywhere teach “spiritual baptism” and “water baptism” No, the Scriptures are crystal clear and the orthodox, historical, biblical Faith of the Church has taught for 2,000 years - One Baptism. i am happy to share the Christian Faith with you.
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