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To: bkaycee
I think the one true Church that Jesus founded, The Orthodox, :), would disagree with your Mathew 16 inference.

That's part of what we both are discussing right now.

Amazing how such a foundational belief could be built on A SINGLE verse.

There are more, but the whole thing is that the whole model is built upon the idea of kingdom. That's why the role of Mary was accepted by the Church so quickly in the first century. Here, the idea of Queen is the wife of the monarch. The Biblical model of Queen is the mother of the monarch, for instance. And there is a whole raft of symbology involved throughout the OT and the NT as well.

Funny, how the parralell verses in LUKE, are totally silent on this "key" issue.

They are, and so is Mark, but let's put it this way - look at how different John is and how much we lean on Trinitarian proofs from John that are totally absent from the Synoptic Gospels. Also, can you tell me what all four Gospels say was written above the head of Christ on the cross? What really happened on Resurrection Day?

A lot of information was written in Apocryphal writings that did not make it into the NT - such as the Didache, Hermas, and Barnabus that the Church believed. Remember that Church tradition preceded the NT Scripture, not vice versa.

798 posted on 06/20/2011 5:55:49 PM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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To: MarkBsnr
There are more, but the whole thing is that the whole model is built upon the idea of kingdom. That's why the role of Mary was accepted by the Church so quickly in the first century.
Quite fascinating fiction. You must certainly be aware that no such concept as Mary being Queen of Heaven was even mentioned for many hundreds of years. Even the Assumption nonsense did not appear for 400 years after Christ and from apochryphal origens.

Does Jesus Call Mary Queen of Heaven? Do any of the Apostles call Mary Queen of Heaven? Does Mary play a significant part in Acts? Is Mary mentioned as playing ANY part in the first generation church? Is Mary healing the sick? etc... Produce a Christian source calling Mary the Queen of Heaven from the first century?

804 posted on 06/20/2011 6:26:18 PM PDT by bkaycee
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To: MarkBsnr
Remember that Church tradition preceded the NT Scripture, not vice versa.

There wasn't any actual church tradition as your religion defines it before the apostles gave us the scriptures...

The apostles were starting the church...And God made changes along the way to counter the changing conditions on the ground...

What the apostles taught was ultimately committed to written scripture and that oral teaching was the only good tradition referred to in the scriptures...

You guys (including your popes, bishops and whoever) don't even know there is no physical Kingdon of God on earth but you act as tho you guys are biblical and Christian authorities...

You ought to 'chuck' everything you learned from your religion and open the word of God and start anew...

862 posted on 06/21/2011 11:49:05 AM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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