I thought so! Don't forget your badge.
I think those with COSMIC Top Secret clearance are meeting in the annex and are setting up for bingo.
Posted on 06/13/2011 3:57:07 PM PDT by HarleyD
One of the more controversial teachings of the Catholic church deals with the perpetual virginity of Mary. This doctrine maintains that Mary remained a virgin after the birth of Jesus and that biblical references suggesting Jesus had siblings are really references to cousins (Catechism of the Catholic Church, paragraph 510).
As the veneration of Mary increased throughout the centuries, the vehicle of Sacred Tradition became the means of promoting new doctrines not explicitly taught in the Bible. The virginity of Mary is clearly taught in scripture when describing the birth of Jesus. But is the doctrine of her continued virginity supported by the Bible? Did Mary lose her virginity after Jesus was born? Does the Bible reveal that Mary had other children, that Jesus had brothers and sisters?
The Bible does not come out and declare that Mary remained a virgin and that she had no children. In fact, the Bible seems to state otherwise: (All quotes are from the NASB.)
• Matthew 1:24-25 - "And Joseph arose from his sleep, and did as the angel of the Lord commanded him, and took as his wife, and kept her a virgin until she gave birth to a Son; and he called His name Jesus."
• Matthew 12:46-47 - "While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. And someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You."
• Matthew 13:55 - "Is not this the carpenters son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?"
• Mark 6:2-3 - "And when the Sabbath had come, He began to teach in the synagogue; and the many listeners were astonished, saying, "Where did this man get these things, and what is this wisdom given to Him, and such miracles as these performed by His hands? "Is not this the carpenter, the son of Mary, and brother of James, and Joses, and Judas, and Simon? Are not His sisters here with us?"
• John 2:12 - "After this He went down to Capernaum, He and His mother, and His brothers, and His disciples; and there they stayed a few days."
• Acts 1:14 - "These all with one mind were continually devoting themselves to prayer, along with the women, and Mary the mother of Jesus, and with His brothers."
• 1 Cor. 9:4-5 - "Do we not have a right to eat and drink? Do we not have a right to take along a believing wife, even as the rest of the apostles, and the brothers of the Lord, and Cephas?"
• Gal. 1:19 - But I did not see any other of the apostles except James, the Lords brother."
In Greek, the word for brother is adelphos and sister is adelphe. This word is used in different contexts: of children of the same parents (Matt. 1:2; 14:3), descendants of parents (Acts 7:23, 26; Heb. 7:5), the Jews as a whole (Acts 3:17, 22), etc. Therefore, the term brother (and sister) can and does refer to the cousins of Jesus.
There is certainly merit in this argument, However, different contexts give different meanings to words. It is not legitimate to say that because a word has a wide scope of meaning, that you may then transfer any part of that range of meaning to any other text that uses the word. In other words, just because the word brother means fellow Jews or cousin in one place, does not mean it has the same meaning in another. Therefore, each verse should be looked at in context to see what it means.
Lets briefly analyze a couple of verses dealing with the brothers of Jesus.
• Matthew 12:46-47, "While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to Him. And someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You."
• Matthew 13:55 - "Is not this the carpenters son? Is not His mother called Mary, and His brothers, James and Joseph and Simon and Judas?"
Psalm 69, A Messianic Psalm
There are many arguments pro and con concerning Jesus siblings. But the issue cannot be settled without examining Psalm 69, a Messianic Psalm. Jesus quotes Psalm 69:4 in John 15:25, "But they have done this in order that the word may be fulfilled that is written in their Law, they hated Me without a cause."
He also quotes Psalm 69:9 in John 2:16-17, "and to those who were selling the doves He said, "Take these things away; stop making My Fathers house a house of merchandise." His disciples remembered that it was written, "Zeal for Thy house will consume me."
Clearly, Psalm 69 is a Messianic Psalm since Jesus quoted it in reference to Himself two times. The reason this is important is because of what is written between the verses that Jesus quoted.
To get the whole context, here is Psalm 69:4-9, "Those who hate me without a cause are more than the hairs of my head; Those who would destroy me are powerful, being wrongfully my enemies, What I did not steal, I then have to restore. 5O God, it is Thou who dost know my folly, And my wrongs are not hidden from Thee. 6May those who wait for Thee not be ashamed through me, O Lord God of hosts; May those who seek Thee not be dishonored through me, O God of Israel, 7Because for Thy sake I have borne reproach; Dishonor has covered my face. 8I have become estranged from my brothers, and an alien to my mothers sons. 9For zeal for Thy house has consumed me, And the reproaches of those who reproach Thee have fallen on me."
This messianic Psalm clearly shows that Jesus has brothers. As Amos 3:7 says, "Surely the Lord God does nothing unless He reveals His secret counsel to His servants the prophets." Gods will has been revealed plainly in the New Testament and prophetically in the Old. Psalm 69 shows us that Jesus had brothers.
Did Mary have other children? The Bible seems to suggest yes. Catholic Tradition says no. Which will you trust?
Of course, the Catholic will simply state that even this phrase "my mother's sons" is in reference not to his siblings, but to cousins and other relatives. This is a necessary thing for the Catholic to say, otherwise, the perpetual virginity of Mary is threatened and since that contradicts Roman Catholic tradition, an interpretation that is consistent with that tradition must be adopted.
The question is, "Was Jesus estranged by His brothers?". Yes, He was. John 7:5 says "For not even His brothers were believing in Him." Furthermore, Psalm 69:8 says both "my brothers" and "my mother's sons." Are these both to be understood as not referring to His siblings? Hardly. The Catholics are fond of saying that "brothers" must mean "cousins." But, if that is the case, then when we read "an alien to my mother's sons" we can see that the writer is adding a further distinction and narrowing the scope of meaning. In other words, Jesus was alienated by his siblings, His very half-brothers begotten from Mary.
It is sad to see the Roman Catholic church go to such lengths to maintain Mary's virginity, something that is a violation of biblical law to be married and fill the earth.
Was adherence to the Council of Jerusalem optional? Should it have been? Is or should the Nicene Creed and the Chalcedonian Definition be optional?
___________________________________________
Optional for what? For salvation, sure. For membership in an organization that makes them mandatory, probably not.
God does not save on the basis of group associations. That is proved in His saying not all in Israel are of Israel.
(Nice to see you again, MD)
Where have you heard of such groups? It's new to me.
For someone you’ve claimed to be an interloper and distraction, you sure seem preoccupied with the Virgin Mary.
Interesting.
Do they give training in denial?
Some assert that you’re a member of one.
Yeah,
I think it’s pretty
horrid how satan has been so successful
at infiltrating
the ISHTAR-MARY-GODDESS figure into the Vatican Cult . . . and the seducing the sheeple into so much
hideously UNBiblical idolatry and blasphemies thereby.
Seems to me someone ought to care enough about all those people being seduced by such demonized figures and forces.
Typical victim-hood thinking.
I believe you are the only one here who talks about an Ishtar-Mary goddess (which, frankly, appears to be a figment of the psychos' linguistics). Whereas, the Virgin Mary is called an interloper and a distraction by you.
Why is that?
WHATever.
Well, don’t look at me. The SECRET MARY SOCIETIES are so secret, I can’t even say if there is such a thing or not. Not only that, anyone who might be a member, if there is such a thing, is completely forbidden to give out the secret decoder ring, the secret handshake, the secret oath, and the double-plus-ungood secret password.
Not that I know anything about it, of course.
Try checking with some of the blabbermouths on “Above Top Secret.” They might let the cat out of the bag. After all, they know all the 38 levels of “Top Secret” above top secret.
By the way, did you know that COSMIC Top Secret is a security clearance used only by NATO. But there is someone here who claims his brother had that clearance.
Does WHO give training in denial!
LOL!
Mary never made it to the post of the Queen of Heaven...There's already one there...You can read about her in Jeremiah...
Jesus IS God...
1Ti 3:16 And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory.
You've got Mary as God's wife...You've got Mary as God's mother...
That's not the Mary of the bible but it certainly looks like the pagan Goddess Ishtar...
No probl—wait, what? I can’t let you know, unless you’re a member — wait, there isn’t any such thing. That’s the ticket. No Such Society. NSS.
Weren't you one of those defending Nestorianism?
That's not the Mary of the bible but it certainly looks like the pagan Goddess Ishtar...
So, do we now have another one here fixated on an Ishtar-Mary goddess?
Are you trying to trick me into giving out the double-plus-ungood secret password?
See me at the meeting, you-know-where. I can explain. Not that there’s anything to explain. About anything.
I can't remember. Is this one still planned to be at the Area-51 UFO Deception Center?
Shhhhhhh!!!!!
I thought so! Don't forget your badge.
I think those with COSMIC Top Secret clearance are meeting in the annex and are setting up for bingo.
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