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To: Iscool
Theology has a jargon. A conversation of almost 2000 years duration will develop that jargon. People who take part in that conversation as listeners will tend to use and adopt the jargon. Did you really not know what was meant?

Further, some of us do not go to dictionaries of current usage for our words. We think they impoverish the language. Your reference to the modern use of stigma is an example. Thomas uses τυπος to refer to the 'print' of the nails and Paul refers to στιγματα to refer to the same thing. so "wound" would not convey what "stigma" conveys to those who have been discussing theses things for a while. "Mark" would be better.

The need for some acquaintance with the ways of language over time. also shows in your startling interpretation of the wrenched out of context phrase "the Holy Spirit of the Virgin Mary."

My Greek service book has

...και σαρκωθρντα εκ Πνευματος Αγιου καιΜαριας της Παρτηενου ...
... and was made flesh by/of the Holy Spirit and Mary the Virgin...

The text of the old Mass is
Et incarnatus est de Spiritu Sancto ex Maria Virgine.

Since 'ex' has a sense of "out of" there's a hint here that the Holy Spirit made IHS 'out of' Mary as one might make a desk 'out of' wood. And then one might say, "Whom was that made by and what's it made of?" and get the answer, "By Iscool, of wood."

If you think about all the meanings and uses of "of" and of the genitive case there are plenty of ways to look at the text you excerpted without thinking that the Holy Spirit is "of" the Virgin Mary anymore than God is "of" me, though He is in some sense "my God," as even the Psalmist says.

One reason to develop the linguistic skills of grammar,logic, and rhetoric is precisely to avoid wasting time on silly and improbable interpretations of texts torn from their context.

2,226 posted on 06/12/2011 10:19:47 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: Mad Dawg
The need for some acquaintance with the ways of language over time. also shows in your startling interpretation of the wrenched out of context phrase "the Holy Spirit of the Virgin Mary."

It's your phrase not mine...You posted it in 2143

It's still incomprehensible, nobody is denying that, and that's why Catholics are supposed to bow at the part of the Creed that says "And was incarnate by the Holy Ghost of the Virgin Mary and was made man."

If you think about all the meanings and uses of "of" and of the genitive case there are plenty of ways to look at the text you excerpted without thinking that the Holy Spirit is "of" the Virgin Mary anymore than God is "of" me, though He is in some sense "my God," as even the Psalmist says.

In other words, we see what it says but it doesn't say what it says...The same tactic you guys apply to plain scripture...

One reason to develop the linguistic skills of grammar,logic, and rhetoric is precisely to avoid wasting time on silly and improbable interpretations of texts torn from their context.

Nice try...It says what it says...

2,253 posted on 06/12/2011 4:59:49 PM PDT by Iscool (I don't understand all that I know...)
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