The Church Fathers- Mary: Ever Virgin

The Church Fathers ^ | 120AD-450AD

[marshmallow]

The Protoevangelium of James

“And behold, an angel of the Lord stood by [St. Anne], saying, ‘Anne! Anne! The Lord has heard your prayer, and you shall conceive and shall bring forth, and your seed shall be spoken of in all the world.’ And Anne said, ‘As the Lord my God lives, if I beget either male or female, I will bring it as a gift to the Lord my God, and it shall minister to him in the holy things all the days of its life.’ . . . And [from the time she was three] Mary was in the temple of the Lord as if she were a dove that dwelt there” (Protoevangelium of James 4, 7 [A.D. 120]).

“And when she was twelve years old there was held a council of priests, saying, ‘Behold, Mary has reached the age of twelve years in the temple of the Lord. What then shall we do with her, lest perchance she defile the sanctuary of the Lord?’ And they said to the high priest, ‘You stand by the altar of the Lord; go in and pray concerning her, and whatever the Lord shall manifest to you, that also will we do.’ . . . [A]nd he prayed concerning her, and behold, an angel of the Lord stood by him saying, ‘Zechariah! Zechariah! Go out and assemble the widowers of the people and let them bring each his rod, and to whomsoever the Lord shall show a sign, his wife shall she be. . . . And Joseph [was chosen]. . . . And the priest said to Joseph, ‘You have been chosen by lot to take into your keeping the Virgin of the Lord.’ But Joseph refused, saying, ‘I have children, and I am an old man, and she is a young girl’” (ibid., 8–9).

“And Annas the scribe came to him [Joseph] . . . and saw that Mary was with child. And he ran away to the priest and said to him, ‘Joseph, whom you did vouch for, has committed a grievous crime.’ And the priest said, ‘How so?’ And he said, ‘He has defiled the virgin whom he received out of the temple of the Lord and has married her by stealth’” (ibid., 15).

“And the priest said, ‘Mary, why have you done this? And why have you brought your soul low and forgotten the Lord your God?’ . . . And she wept bitterly saying, ‘As the Lord my God lives, I am pure before him, and know not man’” (ibid.).

Origen

“The Book [the Protoevangelium] of James [records] that the brethren of Jesus were sons of Joseph by a former wife, whom he married before Mary. Now those who say so wish to preserve the honor of Mary in virginity to the end, so that body of hers which was appointed to minister to the Word . . . might not know intercourse with a man after the Holy Spirit came into her and the power from on high overshadowed her. And I think it in harmony with reason that Jesus was the firstfruit among men of the purity which consists in [perpetual] chastity, and Mary was among women. For it were not pious to ascribe to any other than to her the firstfruit of virginity” (Commentary on Matthew 2:17 [A.D. 248]).

Hilary of Poitiers

“If they [the brethren of the Lord] had been Mary’s sons and not those taken from Joseph’s former marriage, she would never have been given over in the moment of the passion [crucifixion] to the apostle John as his mother, the Lord saying to each, ‘Woman, behold your son,’ and to John, ‘Behold your mother’ [John 19:26–27), as he bequeathed filial love to a disciple as a consolation to the one desolate" (Commentary on Matthew 1:4 [A.D. 354]).

Athanasius

“Let those, therefore, who deny that the Son is by nature from the Father and proper to his essence deny also that he took true human flesh from the ever-virgin Mary” (Discourses Against the Arians 2:70 [A.D. 360]).

Epiphanius of Salamis

“We believe in one God, the Father almighty, maker of all things, both visible and invisible; and in one Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of God . . . who for us men and for our salvation came down and took flesh, that is, was born perfectly of the holy ever-virgin Mary by the Holy Spirit” (The Man Well-Anchored 120 [A.D. 374]).

“And to holy Mary, [the title] ‘Virgin’ is invariably added, for that holy woman remains undefiled” (Medicine Chest Against All Heresies 78:6 [A.D. 375]).

Jerome

“[Helvidius] produces Tertullian as a witness [to his view] and quotes Victorinus, bishop of Petavium. Of Tertullian, I say no more than that he did not belong to the Church. But as regards Victorinus, I assert what has already been proven from the gospel—that he [Victorinus] spoke of the brethren of the Lord not as being sons of Mary but brethren in the sense I have explained, that is to say, brethren in point of kinship, not by nature. [By discussing such things we] are . . . following the tiny streams of opinion. Might I not array against you the whole series of ancient writers? Ignatius, Polycarp, Irenaeus, Justin Martyr, and many other apostolic and eloquent men, who against [the heretics] Ebion, Theodotus of Byzantium, and Valentinus, held these same views and wrote volumes replete with wisdom. If you had ever read what they wrote, you would be a wiser man” (Against Helvidius: The Perpetual Virginity of Mary 19 [A.D. 383]).

“We believe that God was born of a virgin, because we read it. We do not believe that Mary was married after she brought forth her Son, because we do not read it. . . . You [Helvidius] say that Mary did not remain a virgin. As for myself, I claim that Joseph himself was a virgin, through Mary, so that a virgin Son might be born of a virginal wedlock” (ibid., 21).

Didymus the Blind

“It helps us to understand the terms ‘first-born’ and ‘only-begotten’ when the Evangelist tells that Mary remained a virgin ‘until she brought forth her first-born son’ [Matt. 1:25]; for neither did Mary, who is to be honored and praised above all others, marry anyone else, nor did she ever become the Mother of anyone else, but even after childbirth she remained always and forever an immaculate virgin” (The Trinity 3:4 [A.D. 386]).

Ambrose of Milan

“Imitate her [Mary], holy mothers, who in her only dearly beloved Son set forth so great an example of material virtue; for neither have you sweeter children [than Jesus], nor did the Virgin seek the consolation of being able to bear another son” (Letters 63:111 [A.D. 388]).

Pope Siricius I

“You had good reason to be horrified at the thought that another birth might issue from the same virginal womb from which Christ was born according to the flesh. For the Lord Jesus would never have chosen to be born of a virgin if he had ever judged that she would be so incontinent as to contaminate with the seed of human intercourse the birthplace of the Lord’s body, that court of the eternal king” (Letter to Bishop Anysius [A.D. 392]).

Augustine

“In being born of a Virgin who chose to remain a Virgin even before she knew who was to be born of her, Christ wanted to approve virginity rather than to impose it. And he wanted virginity to be of free choice even in that woman in whom he took upon himself the form of a slave” (Holy Virginity 4:4 [A.D. 401]).

“It was not the visible sun, but its invisible Creator who consecrated this day for us, when the Virgin Mother, fertile of womb and integral in her virginity, brought him forth, made visible for us, by whom, when he was invisible, she too was created. A Virgin conceiving, a Virgin bearing, a Virgin pregnant, a Virgin bringing forth, a Virgin perpetual. Why do you wonder at this, O man?” (Sermons 186:1 [A.D. 411]).

“Heretics called Antidicomarites are those who contradict the perpetual virginity of Mary and affirm that after Christ was born she was joined as one with her husband” (Heresies 56 [A.D. 428]).

Leporius

“We confess, therefore, that our Lord and God, Jesus Christ, the only Son of God, born of the Father before the ages, and in times most recent, made man of the Holy Spirit and the ever-virgin Mary” (Document of Amendment 3 [A.D. 426]).

Cyril of Alexandria

“[T]he Word himself, coming into the Blessed Virgin herself, assumed for himself his own temple from the substance of the Virgin and came forth from her a man in all that could be externally discerned, while interiorly he was true God. Therefore he kept his Mother a virgin even after her childbearing” (Against Those Who Do Not Wish to Confess That the Holy Virgin is the Mother of God 4 [A.D. 430]).

Pope Leo I

“His [Christ’s] origin is different, but his [human] nature is the same. Human usage and custom were lacking, but by divine power a Virgin conceived, a Virgin bore, and Virgin she remained” (Sermons 22:2 [A.D. 450]).

[smvoice]

Thanks for the simple question from the simple non-Catholic.

Is the Rosary considered by the Roman Catholic Church an "epitome of the whole Gospel"? That would be Catechism paragraph 971.

[Mad Dawg]

When I was trying to talk my 'chapter' of Lay Dominicans to pray the Rosary "in choirs" (one side of the church does one half of the prayer and the other side does the other and it switches every decade) as opposed to what I call "call and response", I ended my jocular request by mentioning some florid promise of St. Louis de Montfort's about how you get more indulgences (or whatever) if you do it that way.

Everybody laughed.

The POINT of the joke was that I was arguing the way non-Catholics THINK we argue.

It's like when one of the Friars was taking some inquirers through the Church to point out various features. When he got to our statue of Mary he said, "That's Mary. As you know, we worship her." And everybody laughed.

Our antagonists spread falsehoods about us and attribute motives to us which seem ludicrous. So we laugh.

[smvoice]

Jokes aside, was the last post I sent you correct? I don’t want to misunderstand the RCCs teaching on the Rosary.

[Mad Dawg]

An “epitome”. That’s great! Yeah. I’ll cop to it.

The first five mysteries (Joyful) have to do with the Incarnation and early years of Jesus’ life.
(1) Annunciation
(2) Visitation
(3) Nativity
(4) Presentation
(5) Finding the young Jesus in the Temple

Then we go to the ministry mysteries (Luminous)
(6) Baptism
(7) Wedding at Cana
(8) Proclamation of the Kingdom
(9) Transfiguration
(10) Institution of the Eucharist

Then the mysteries of the Passion (Sorrowful)
(11) The “agony”(= struggle) in the Garden
(12) Jesus is scourged
(13) Jesus is crowned with thorns
(14) Jesus is made to carry his cross
(15) Jesus us crucified and dies

Then the Mysteries of Glory (um, Glorious)
(16) The Resurrection
(17) The Ascension
(18) The descent of the Holy Spirit at Pentecost
(19) The Assumption of Mary
(20) The Coronation of Mary

So yeah, that is a concise summary of the high points which is what an “epitome” is. I like it.

[Mad Dawg]

(Did I answer okay?)

[smvoice]

Is the Rosary a series of prayers counted on a string of beads? Arranged in groups of ten small beads separated by one large bead? Five sets of these decades. The large bead is the Our Father or Lord’s Prayer, and the Our Father is said on this bead. One each of the small beads, the Hail Mary is prayed by Catholics. Which would be Catechism paragraphs 2676-2677. Is this correct? Thanks for you patience.

[Mad Dawg]

It is right the way it would be right to say that I am a featherless biped endowed with speech, some would say with too much speech.

Try "The Bible is a bunch o' words arranged in a certain order so that they record the religious thoughts and history of some folks in the Mediterranean basin."

See what I mean? It's right while also seeming to miss the point.

To me, you ain't doin' the Rosary all the way if you're not spending at least part of the time on the "mysteries."

Did you read my attempt on "The Baptism of the Lord"? Seriously. That's not the only way to 'meditate' but it's one way, and, to me, without something like that going on, you're missing precisely the "epitome of the Gospel" thing.

[smvoice]

I know I'm probably missing the whole Rosary thing, but I'm trying to get the grasp of it. So it is a series of beads on which prayers are repeated?

While I'm with you here, the Rosary is a sacramental, which does not give sanctifying grace and actual grace, unlike a sacrament, which does. [1670].

The purpose of a sacramental, the Rosary included, is to help Catholics prepare for the grace to be received from the sacraments. [1667]. Right? Thanks again.

[Mad Dawg]

Wow. Be sure to read the whole of Article 2. It's not bad.

BTW, just to show thee weird and wonderful ways of the Latin Rite of the Catholic Church, the Rosary remains officially unofficial. Nobody MUST pray the Rosary unless they've made promises to some group or order -- or to their mother.

[smvoice]

OK. Just one more question here. The meaning of “vain”. From “vain repetitions”. Does it mean meaningless, worth nothing, or does it mean vanity, as in I,me,mine, what I desire, what I want?

[Mad Dawg]

I wanted to add that there are other ways of making a Rosary. I have one with 20 decades, and another with just one and a ring at the end, I move it from finger to finger as I complete a decade. And there is "introductory" and "conclusion" material. The main part remains pretty much the same, but there is a Franciscan Rosary which is slightly different.

Yes, we would hold that something certainly happens, some gift is objectively given through the sacraments. But a thing like a Rosary or the medal I wear as lay Dominican prompts me to prayer and God uses the prayer to mess with my life (for which I think Him!) So you COULD say that, since everything works together, the Rosary or the medal KIND of did something. If you write a note to yourself to study the Bible at bedtime, the note KIND of does something ....

I do not agree with your reading of 1667.
-- I mean YES, it is always good to pray when you go to Church. But it is always good to pray when you DON't Go to church, right?
-- Prayer disposes us to ... pray some more! And we all probably know people of prayer who just seem more attuned to God, less likely to flip the bird to someone who cuts them off in traffic; MORE likely to say (and to MEAN) "Bless his heart, maybe he's having a bad day."

-- the whole line in 1667 is "By them men are disposed to receive the chief effect of the sacraments, and various occasions in life are rendered holy."

Wow. That's a doctoral thesis or three in one sentence! (All this is IMHO) Good things come in habits. IF I am in the habit of prayer, then I will,what, enjoy Mass more. That may or may not change the grace of Mass but it might somehow play into the way it works in my life.

Not only that, but with respect to "rendering holy" occasions of our lives, those who are graced with the habit of turning to God will be more likely, I'd guess, to do so when told (as we were once told, incorrectly) that their baby girl would die. It was not a brand new idea for us to take our sorrow and fear to God. We'd taken our joy and happiness to him.

Or to make it totally homely: We "offer thanks" when we eat, right? In a way by that act of prayer and praise and recollection that all good things come from God, we "render holy" the meal.

I HATE talking about prayer and grace because it's right at that place where our action and God's action get all mixed up, so it's easy to slip into sounding like you think that YOU did something because YOU PRAYED. Romans 8 is SO important.

Dawg Summary (or, ahem, "epitome"): I never prayed a good prayer in my life. But the Holy Spirit has bailed me out a LOT and prayed better than I ever could and somehow he brought me along for the ride.

THANKS BE TO HIM! Without him it never would have occurred to me to pray, or that there was a God to pray to, or to see that God's hand in my life, or to bear my sorrows and my joys! I have nothing I have not received and it is HORRID to me to think of claiming a thing! All things come from Him and if I ever gave Him a thing, it was his already -- including my desire to give.

Right about here is where we fall at the foot of his throne.

[Mad Dawg]

I always took it as meaning "empty" . When Ecclesiastes says, "Vanity of vanities, all is vanity" as translated by the same people, I think he means it's all dust, empty, useless -- a striving after wind.

Of course the other sense of vanity is one of those things too.

HOWEVER, I did a quick word study on the text the other day and the word in question, (it's just one word) is, transliterated, (got it right here) BattalogEsete (where the "E" is like the ay in HAY and the e is like the e in GET).

My helps say that it is a word we only have one other example of, So we can only guess at what it means by looking at the other translations. I just can't find my Vulgate Bible so I don't know what those guys thought it meant.

But it seems likely that the KJV guys chose their words by looking at how other earlier translations had handled it. That's my guess anyway.

I wonder if "mindless chatter" would be a good, if informal, translation. "Babble" might be good, but it always has overtones of the "Tower" so it might be over-specific. "Meaningless nattering" -- how about that?

Anyway, to repeat, I've always thought of it as essentially meaning "empty". I think the "I, me, mine" sense of vanity is comparatively modern. In The Piglrims Progress "Vanity Fair" is not about "I, me, mine" as much (IMHO, of course) as it is about attractive things to waste your time and attention on.

I have to be away from the confuser for an hour or so. I hope this has been somehow useful for you (and gives glory to God).

[smvoice]

Yes, I’ve enjoyed our afternoon back and forth! Much better than the morning began between us...Thanks for your information and may God’s Grace and Peace be with you always. Maranatha!

smvoice

[Running On Empty]

Is it OK if I offer something to this dialogue?

[smvoice]

Of course it’s OK. Offer away :)

[Mad Dawg]

Please do.

[D-fendr]

Some people want to know A, B, C, what do I have to do?

Then the follow up is: ok, how much A and how often? etc.

This approach of course misses the point, but over the years, the Church has amassed a great deal of information this type.

On the Protestant side, we find a similar thing, the sinner’s prayer:
http://www.jesus2020.com/?gclid=CPK-uMq1tqkCFYcb2godpVvGJA

Variations on this theme occur in most Protestant faiths.

Going to God with “what’s in it for me and what’s the least I have to do - precisely?” misses the point - again. But both sides have an answer of sorts, or you can read their doctrines and confessions with this in mind. The Catholic Church just has more details.

:)

[smvoice]

You are right. The only difference I would suggest is the “sinner’s prayer” is usually said once. The Rosary is not.

[D-fendr]

Kewl !. Less effort, same bennies.

:)

[smvoice]

lol!