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To: bronx2
Mark 7:7 Howbeit in vain do they worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. 8 For laying aside the commandment of God, ye hold the tradition of men, as the washing of pots and cups: and many other such like things ye do. 9 And he said unto them, Full well ye reject the commandment of God, that ye may keep your own tradition.

Even the current RCC teaching is in contradiction to their own claimed church fathers.

“We have learned from none others the plan of our salvation, than from those through whom the gospel has come down to us, which they did at one time proclaim in public, and, at a later period, by the will of God, handed down to us in the Scriptures, to be the ground and pillar of our faith.” (Irenaeus, Against Heresies III.1.1, in Alexander Roberts and W. H. Rambaugh, trans., in The Writings of Irenaeus (Edinburgh: T & T Clark, 1874)

For Irenaeus, the church doctrine is never purely traditional; on the contrary, the thought that there could be some truth transmitted exclusively viva voce (orally) is a Gnostic line of thought.[ Ellen Flesseman-Van Leer, Tradition and Scripture in the Early Church (Assen: Van Gorcum, 1953), 133.]

In fact, the apostle Paul himself states that the gospel he initially preached orally could be verified by the written Scriptures.[ 'Now, brothers, I want to remind you of the gospel I preached to you, which you received and on which you have taken your stand.By this gospel you are saved, if you hold firmly to the word I preached to you. Otherwise, you have believed in vain. For what I received I passed on to you as of first importance: that Christ died for our sins according to the Scriptures, that he was buried, that he was raised on the third day according to the Scriptures' (1 Cor. 15:1-4).]The church as a whole, up to the thirteenth century, never viewed tradition to be a source of revelation.

You need to do more study of the church prior to Trent. You might learn the difference between the church prior and now. It's obvious to me that you know little of the early church prior to Trent.

506 posted on 05/22/2011 6:44:03 PM PDT by CynicalBear
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To: CynicalBear
You need to focus on 1Cor 11:2 ,2 Thes 2:15 and 2 Tim 1 13-14 which validate tradition. Your cite is taken out of context.

Current Catholic teaching is in concert with he early church fathers. Irenaeus was the Catholic bishop of Lyon who also wrote a stout defense of the papacy.

Your source is taken from Ellen Flessman Van Leer who in 1953 made a contention that Irenaeus and Tertullian advocated Sola scriptura. Need lees to say her tome has been discredited by most scholars and she is not recognized as a credible source except for a few evangelicals probably like Camping.

Perhaps you can get a quote from Camping instead of Ellen to tickle your fancy. It would be better to concentrate on the saving powers of Jesus than discredited sources as Ellen who I heard died several years ago.

518 posted on 05/22/2011 7:24:49 PM PDT by bronx2 (while Jesus is the Alpha /Omega He has given us rituals which you reject to obtain the graces as to)
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To: CynicalBear
You need to explain to us all how you allow ones like Camping and others to discredit Christianity.

Do you sit idly by and allow the words of Jesus to be subjected to derision by evangelicals like camping or do you police evangelicals like him?

How do you police these reprobates without an ecclesiastical structure?

How do you admonish ones like Camping?

How do you insure adherence to the words of God given an addiction to prideful self interpretation?

Given the state of derision you currently enjoy it might be well to rid yourself of these Satanic relationships

521 posted on 05/22/2011 7:34:44 PM PDT by bronx2 (while Jesus is the Alpha /Omega He has given us rituals which you reject to obtain the graces as to)
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