Posted on 05/09/2011 11:11:10 AM PDT by bronxville
Sure you did...But that's alright...Perhaps some Catholics will dig into the subject now that it's been brought to light here and see where their 'Queen of Heaven' originates from...
Neither does the term "King of Kings" that we use for the Christian God have any relationship to that same term used for pagan gods
I don't care what you or any non-Christian says, just because pagan gods are called the god of light and we call our Christian God the God of Light, does not mean our Christian God is related to the pagan gods
Suspect you meant "of the heath," or uncultivated land.
Colloquialisms with similar meaning today would be referring to someone as being from "the sticks" or "the boonies."
Oh I’m not making any “moral relative allegations towards Christianity”. I’m simply pointing out that nothing exists in a vacumn, not even Christianity. The gospel is for everybody of every race and culture, but different cultures interpret it in different ways, and over the centuries some of all that has become “attached” to Christianity. Christianity, wherever it is practiced, is a fusion of a lot of elements - of which the “plain truth of the bible” is only one. A lot of what we think of as being a “Christian” way of doing things is in fact a “cultural” way of doing thins. That doesn’t neccesarily mean its bad or wrong or not worth defending of course. After all, it also works in reverse. Christianity alters cultures - sometimes very markedly.
Quite so. I stand corrected.
A lot of folk think that because some pagan religions use terms like "King of Kings" that Christianity has just copied the expression and therefore is just one more of many religions, no better and probably worse. Certainly it has no more validity than they do.
But consider. It could equally well be the other way round. After all, if the Christian Deity is the one true God, creator and master of all, that fact would resonate through all eternity. In other words, the pagans (who like all Humans have an instinctive link to their creator) are simply copying the term from Him!
I think the one and only CS Lewis (who was an Anglican incidentally) puts it a lot better than I do!
I don’t know if the “new pagans” have taken over a Catholic cathedral, but I know they’ve taken over a bunch of Episcopalian churches...
Oh, I’d say that the pagans have taken over some Catholic churches mostly because the Vatican has said things to that effect themselves.
That's not my contention nor any that I've read...Did you make that up???
Diana was a Roman goddess known by many names, among them, Queen of Heaven...
The bible says everyone, everywhere worshiped Diana...
bronk-Did you get anywhere with it?
Yes and no.
Some people were greatful when I showed them these dangers backed up with plenty of information and they stopped practicing NA. Others,including a few Catholic's who were holding yoga classes in the church ignored me even when I gave them information from church documents condemning it.
Fighting this is like playing "wack a mole" with a hydra .You knock one out and it changes forms and pops back up again somewhere else.
We must be vigilant though. The devil figures we will get tired and lose our zeal-this is why daily rosaries,Saint Micheal Prayer, Jesus Prayer, attending Adoration etc..must be followed if we are to have strength to fight this enemy.
Cronos (post 47): And you give us adequate proof of why your kind are wrong -- your basic facts are utterly wrong. Here's another blooper from you.
Diana was the goddess of the hunt. The Roman goddess consort of Jupiter and Jupiter's queen was Juno.
Diana never had the title of Queen of Heaven -- give me proof for your statement.
iscool: Oh c'mon...It's all over the internet...Google goddess Diana and you'll be inundated with source material...
Cronos: Are random google queries the source of your data? If you type in diana queen of heaven you get a website that praises Princess Di... now, if this is the source of your information, there's no wonder you are consistently wrong.
For the first three...The fourth is the first of many sites that claim Diana was known as the Queen of Heaven...Apparently you quit after reading the first two, eh???
Do you know where the Title "King of Kings" originated? Did you know that that was the term used of various chief gods as well as of the Persian Emperor (Shahenshah) -- do you now claim that Christianity is paganism?
you can find the God of the OT referred to the “Sun of righteousness” (Mal. 4:2) and pagan gods were compared to stars and other semitic Gods given the name El or Adonai. Even the term God of Light has similarities in Zoroastrianism — do you condemn us Christians for using this term?
. In the Khorshed Nyaish [Khwarshed Niyayesh], Mihr Yazad or the Angel Mithra, the God of Light, Justice, and Truthfulness is represented as carrying a vazra or mace to strike it over the heads of the Daevas or the evil powers
compare to Ed underwood, God of Light, http://holybreathspiritualqigong.com/FatherGod.html - Jesus is the son of the God from Heaven our creator, the God of Light, opc.org O God of Light, Your Word, a Lamp Unfailing, first baptist A God of Light "I praise you, Lord, because you are my light and my salvation,' and because you know what lies in darkness, and light dwells with you'. . . ." (Psalm 27:1, Daniel 2:22).
So, I ask you again, Even the term God of Light has similarities in Zoroastrianism — do you condemn us Christians for using this term?
Very well put. Which of Lewis' books is that?
I can’t remember and I don’t have my copies to hand. It might be “Mere Christianity” or “Basic Christianity” where he expounds on this misappreciation of causality.
>> Dr. Peter Kreeft: “Paganism is simply the natural gravity of the human spirit, the line of least resistance, religion in its fallen state.”
A statement flawed in so many ways. Whatever paganism is, it is not the gravity of one’s spirit. Arguably, the path of least resistance is one that is opened to the arms of our Lord, not one that leads to the road of paganism. Finally, religion is the procedures of man; it is Faith which binds us to our Lord. Attending to the formality of religion without the understanding of Faith in Christ is a waste of time.
Paganism is no doubt a routine for the idle minded.
Myth Become Fact
....Lewis himself as a young man had fallen into the trap of thinking Christianity just another myth. He had read J. G. Frazer’s celebrated twelve-volume work on myth, The Golden Bough (1890-1915), and was intrigued by the many parallels in the history of religions to the idea of the “dying god.”
In sum, all of mankind’s religious and philosophical yearnings partake in, have an inchoate share in, the truth of the Incarnation. The particularity of Christianity — namely, that it is the true religion — is no longer scandalous, but a beautiful mystery that extends universally, seeing reality whole. As someone once said to me, even if this viewpoint is not true, it certainly is beautiful. I think it beautiful and true.
This also accounts for all the vestiges of Christianity found in ancient philosophy. For example, the teachings of the neo-Platonists, as the young St. Augustine discovered on his path to conversion, had lots of hints of Christianity in them, especially the notion of the Logos (the Word). They had remarkable similarity to the writings of St. John, who would not have known those works. But as St. Augustine notes, they lacked the historical flavor of Christianity, particularly the fact of the Word becoming flesh.
Myth and Christianity are not, therefore, antagonistic to each other. Various myths exist either as anticipations of Christianity or as echoes of Christianity. It then makes perfect sense that Christianity took various pagan holidays and feast days and “borrowed” them, or rather purified them and infused them with deeper meaning, instead of rejecting them. Too often we try to “hide” the fact that Christmas is really a pagan holiday that Christians borrowed. This is something rather to be proud of.
Then, as one runs about flouting a new “enlightened” idea that Christianity is really just a myth, one neatly rationalizes any variety of immoral acts. The enlightened person’s life soon becomes sheer misery, an enslavement to sin. In a word, this “enlightened” viewpoint isn’t really very enlightened.
Christianity, without ceasing to be mythical, is solidly rooted in fact. Your faith is rooted in real events that happened in history. Did you ever notice how the first chapter of St. John’s Gospel, accused of being the epitome of myth with its claims about the Word becoming flesh, sparkles with historical detail? (”A man named John . . . “). Have you ever noticed how St. Luke goes out of his way to state that his account is based on real facts (see Luke 1:1-4)? And St. Paul comes right out with it: “And if Christ has not been raised, then empty is our teaching” (1 Cor. 15:14).
One need not accept the historicity of the Gospels on blind faith. It is eminently reasonable to believe that in Jesus Christ, born in Bethlehem, the deepest yearnings of mankind, expressed in so many various mythological modes, have been fulfilled.
http://www.victorclaveau.com/htm_html/Catholic%20Apologetics/Apologetics/myth_become_fact.htm
The book the author quoted from, The Mystery of the Incarnation by Christoph Cardinal Schoenborn (Ignatius Press, 1983), is now out of print.
The Pantheon Code - fascinating and well worth a peek...
http://www.solvinglight.com/features/athenaandeve01.htm
PS: Vanders, I’m still not sure where you’re coming from, anyway, the author of the thread-starter [Dr Peter Kreeft] actually wrote the definition of Paganism in his article. He’s a Professor of Philosphy at Boston University and actually an expert on C.S. Lewis.
Audio...
http://www.peterkreeft.com/audio.htm
“The World’s Sixteen Crucified Saviors (or Christianity before Christ)”
“FRIENDS and brethren — teachers of the Christian faith: Will you believe us when we tell you the divine claims of your religion are gone — all swept away by the “logic of history,” and nullified by the demonstrations of science?”...
http://www.infidels.org/library/historical/kersey_graves/16/
This guy “proves” that ALL of Christianity itself is pagan. I’d be interested to get your feedback on it.
Are you a Hislop apologist?
In case you missed it, here’s another funny post in post 81 from the master!
Nothing like Christian unity...2000 years and counting...
Right from the beginning, there were those who thought that they knew better. Guys like Simon Magus were in it for the fun and profit. Others were just full of self-pride(Marcion et al). Marcion was, after all a great role model for Calvin, just as Calvin was a great role model for Joseph Smith.
In this case, though, the Church of Iscool (population one) seems to be more of a solitary occupation, consisting of being seated in the Throne of Sports Worship each Sunday during football season.
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