You can really tie yourself in knots when quoting scripture out of context and ignore the Fathers.
Rom 3:23 KJV - For ALL have sinned, and come short of the glory of God
Rom 5:12 KJV - Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that ALL have sinned:
I guess it follows that Jesus wasn’t without sin either. Has it occurred to all those who spout scripture, but ignore tradition, that “ALL” would include Jesus Christ too.
You make that statement and then you post this:
“[T]he Lord said to his Mother, ‘Let your heart rejoice and be glad, for every favor and every gift has been given to you from my Father in heaven and from me and from the Holy Spirit. Every soul that calls upon your name shall not be ashamed, but shall find mercy and comfort and support and confidence, both in the world that now is and in that which is to come, in the presence of my Father in the heavens’” (The Falling Asleep of Mary [A.D. 400]).
Is this a serious thread???
What do you make of this? Polycarp was disciple of the Apostle John, and less than a generation from the apostles. His epistle deals specifically with prayer in detail.
“Of Polycarp, the apostolical bishop of the Catholic Church of Smyrna, only one Epistle has survived. It is addressed to the Philippians. In it he speaks to his brother Christians of prayer, constant, incessant prayer; but the prayer of which he speaks is supplication addressed only to God. He marks out for our imitation the good example of St. Paul and the other Apostles; assuring us that they had not run in vain, but were gone to the place prepared for them by the Lord, as the reward of their labours. But not one word does he utter bearing upon the invocation of saints in prayer; he makes no allusion to the Virgin Mary. “
http://www.logoi.com/notes/christian_worship/saint_polycarp.html
Hello. Jesus was born in a stable at night by all accounts. Who would be around to hear it?
And I doubt that anyone would have thought she was a virgin being pregnant before she came together with Joseph. Even Joseph didn't think that until the angel told him in a dream to take Mary as his WIFE.
No way the rest of the world thought she was pregnant outside of the usual way.
The questions of people in later passages of Scripture indicate that people though Jesus was son of Joseph. They didn't call her *Virgin Mary*.
Where do people get this drivel? Not from Scripture, that's for sure.
One question on this thread..were the chuch fathers infallible?
A “Revenge” thread, how quaint.
Eve was still a virgin when the serpent tempted her? Really? Unneccessary doctrine. Only a presumption, and not necessary to the doctrine of the virgin birth of Jesus Christ, the words of church “fathers,” notwithstanding.
Adam named the animal creation, watched them, saw that they had mates, but there was no help meet for him, and yet it is said by these church “fathers” that Adam and Eve had not learned about procreation or enjoyed a gift God gave for the marriage state? This lowers my estimation of the reasoning skills of some of these who are called “fathers.”
WRONG
The foulest blasphemies are leading this thread.
Using “blasphemy” to describe detractions to the HORRIFICALLY FALSE Marian fantasies
PROVES she is worshiped.
“blasphemy” applies only TO GOD!
DOH!
Once and only once in the history of mankind has there been a person conceived “immaculately”: THAT ONE TIME WAS WHEN THE LORD JESUS CHRIST WAS CONCEIVED.
Other than that, every human born was conceived non-immaculately. EVERY human being. Including Jesus’ mom.
Clement of Alexandria
“Now, O you, my children, our Instructor is like His Father God, whose son He is, sinless, blameless, and with a soul devoid of passion; God in the form of man, stainless, the minister of His Father’s will, the Word who is God, who is in the Father, who is at the Father’s right hand, and with the form of God is God. He is to us a spotless image; to Him we are to try with all our might to assimilate our souls. He is wholly free from human passions; wherefore also He alone is judge, because He alone is sinless. As far, however, as we can, let us try to sin as little as possible. For nothing is so urgent in the first place as deliverance from passions and disorders, and then the checking of our liability to fall into sins that have become habitual. It is best, therefore, not to sin at all in any way, which we assert to be the prerogative of God alone.” - The Instructor 1.2
Origen
“For in the connected series of statements which appears to apply as to one particular individual, the curse pronounced upon Adam is regarded as common to all (the members of the race), and what was spoken with reference to the woman is spoken of every woman without exception.” - Against Celsus 4.40
Cyril of Jerusalem
“This is the Holy Ghost, who came upon the Holy Virgin Mary; for since He who was conceived was Christ the Only-begotten, the power of the Highest overshadowed her, and the Holy Ghost came upon her, and sanctified her, that she might be able to receive Him, by whom all things were made. But I have no need of many words to teach thee that generation was without defilement or taint, for thou hast learned it.” - Catechetical Lectures 17.6
John Chrysostom
“For where parents cause no impediment or hindrance in things belonging to God, it is our bounden duty to give way to them, and there is great danger in not doing so; but when they require anything unseasonably, and cause hindrance in any spiritual matter, it is unsafe to obey. And therefore He answered thus in this place, and again elsewhere, ‘Who is My mother, and who are My brethren?’ (Matt. xii. 48), because they did not yet think rightly of Him; and she, because she had borne Him, claimed, according to the custom of other mothers, to direct Him in all things, when she ought to have reverenced and worshiped Him. This then was the reason why He answered as He did on that occassion....And so this was a reason why He rebuked her on that occasion, saying, ‘Woman, what have I to do with thee?’ [John 2:4] instructing her for the future not to do the like; because, though He was careful to honor His mother, yet He cared much for the salvation of her soul.” - Homilies on the Gospel According to St. John, Homily 21
Augustine
"It is therefore an observed and settled fact, that no man born of a man and a woman, that is, by means of their bodily union, is seen to be free from sin. Whosoever, indeed, is free from sin, is free also from a conception and birth of this kind. Moreover, when expounding the Gospel according to Luke, he says: It was no cohabitation with a husband which opened the secrets of the Virgin’s womb; rather was it the Holy Ghost which infused immaculate seed into her unviolated womb. For the Lord Jesus alone of those who are born of woman is holy, inasmuch as He experienced not the contact of earthly corruption, by reason of the novelty of His immaculate birth; nay, He repelled it by His heavenly majesty - A Treatise on the Grace of Christ, and on Original Sin