[OLD REGGIE]

>Look who's poorly catechized now.

Okay, but I am so poorly catechized that evidently I do not even read very well. I saw the word "substance," but I was looking for a word like "physical"or "physically" since that is the word under contention.

Can you please show me the sentence which uses the word "physical" or "physically" or something similar? In Catholic theology a substance is what a thing is. It does indeed often have a physical aspect, but, for example, a wedding ring could be silver or platinum, broad or narrow, with or without jewels, and it would still have the substance of "wedding ring."

Oh metmom I do believe Mad Dawg is playing games with you to show how poorly catechized you were and how plain the understanding of "physical" and "substance" is to the average Catholic.

Let me help:

SUBSTANCE

A being whose essence requires that it exist in itself. It is an ens per se (a being by itself) or ens in se (a being in itself). It is commonly distinguished from an accident, whose essence is to exist in another, that is, in a substance. (Etym. Latin substantia, that which stands under, principle, foundation.)

Various - Substance

Shucks, not an official source in the lot.

One more time:

Thomistic Philosophy

Weelll, not really official but it is Thomistic Philosophy so I guess we can hang our hat on the very simple explanation, understandable to any ordinary Catholic.

Simple isn't it?

Or--------are we playing word games?

[Mad Dawg]

Please avoid reading my mind.

Where I went to school we engaged in a lot of seminars. We were encouraged NOT to say, "That's absurd," but rather, "I don't understand." It was not only a council of courtesy but of prudence,because often it was true that one didn't understand.

Also, as I have said before, my non-Christian hero is Socrates who would readily take the accusation of being poorly catechized to himself, had it been given.

It is true that I did not think metmom would be able to ,ahem, substantiate her claim,but I am often wrong. Besides, we ADHD dyslexics are always trying to get other people to do the reading. It would be easier for her to come up with a "physical" if one were there than for me to KNOW than none was there. Besides, she'd be reading the catechism, which cannot help but be good.

Thank you for the excellent copy-book discourse on substance. I found it helpful and it reminded me of much. The problem with NOT reading text books is one doesn't get the simple, almost tabular explanations which are so clear and so memorable.

[metmom]

Words games are SOP for the Catholic church.

The CCC says it changes substance, it is “transformed” into the very body and the very blood of Christ and that is how He becomes present in the mass.

It’s been printed there in black and white with links provided to boot.

Anyone who wants can deny that, but then they are forced into the position of denying what the Catholic church on the vatican.va website itself has posted.

Ask any lay Catholic you know if the eucharist becomes the actual body and blood of Christ and you’ll see what Catholics believe.