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To: Mad Dawg; presently no screen name
[presently no screen name:] Nothing good comes out of Rome.

The idea of the University

Not really... Greeks, Persians had a similar idea. And the guild system was functional before the advent of university in Western nations... as it turns out, probably better. "Universal" anything can be controlled from a central bureaucracy, including teaching fields. In that, propaganda abounds, as does the manipulation of the overall direction of education/indoctrination... as is SO evident in universities today.

The idea of International Law

A VERY bad idea, quite in line with Rome's delusions of grandeur, and against the sovereignty of nations as YHWH set it up... This side of the King seated on David's throne in Jerusalem, what one will have is universal empire... and when a tyrant is raised up, no escape at all.

The idea of the rights of nations and of limitations on warfare

Again, a bad idea, quite in line with Rome's delusions of grandeur... Limitations that Rome did/does not apply to herself, btw... More New World Order bullcrap left over from her stint as an empire. Nobility is found in the sovereignty of nations - their mores and laws. If they are a noble people, they require no instruction. If they are not a noble people, they will ignore instruction. Global law (as opposed to agreements between sovereigns) does nothing but artificially tie the hands of good nations, while removing the responsibility to BE good.

The idea of natural rights

The English Common Law of Celtic/Anglo/Saxon origins is older than Rome, and is the primary secular influence in the western sense of natural rights- eclipsed only by the Judeo-Christian ethic as founded in the Bible, through Jewish and proto-protestant sources: BOTH of which Rome fought tooth and nail against, preferring instead to extend the law of Rome, and the feudal system.

The Judeo-Christian sense of ethic is found in the Torah, far before Christ visited man, and far, far before the bastardized thing that became European Christendom. The sense of noblesse oblige, courtly and knightly honor, and other concepts of governmental responsibility came from the Languedoc - the Occish people... by way of Britany into Britain - Another folk the Roman church crushed without mercy (to replace with Franks).

The hospital

Egyptians, Greeks, Persians.

The vast Majority of western fine arts.

Complete with nudity, sun-god halos, pagan hand-signs and etc. You may keep it.

The subjective value approach to economics

LOL!! No. In a free market, the value is always what the market will bear. Y'all came close to a contribution, but then, you would have to claim the Templars and Rosecrucians. Even so, the Dutch (Gotland/Fresian), Hebrew, Egyptian, and Persian markets... basically any market place in any town, and any merchant based shipping fleet, functions under free market principles, and always has. The Torah has laws against price gouging and poor wages, both being symptomatic of capitalism. This is as silly as the idea that Persians came up with the concept of "zero"... LOL!

The abandonment of trail by combat or ordeal in favor of trials with evidence and due process.

Absolutely not. Again, the English Common Law sets the standard of Due Process, by way of the celts/anglo-saxons, and predates Rome. Due Process, at least in it's theory, is Biblical, but it was not functional in Rome, at least not through the European crusades or inquisitions.

1,474 posted on 04/17/2011 10:25:28 PM PDT by roamer_1 (Globalism is just Socialism in a business suit.)
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To: roamer_1

your post displays absolute ignorance of even the most basic and universally accepted and well-documented history

your sect is vile and has contributed nothing good to out civilization


1,475 posted on 04/17/2011 10:52:40 PM PDT by Notwithstanding
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To: roamer_1

english common law had zero no influence on europe and in fact was taken from roman and canon law

it was roman law as honed refined and overhauled by the Church that europe adopted, and england, too, through canon law

your information is so absurd - on par with your sect’s pathetic false doctrines


1,477 posted on 04/17/2011 11:04:15 PM PDT by Notwithstanding
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To: roamer_1
I used to think what you wrote. Then I read some other researchers. Just as most of us come out of school with very little idea about the world between 300 and 1500, so most of us get a deformed view of intellectual history. It's not just on FR that the default position on Catholicism is a tad negative. Who knows how welcome Galileo and his thoughts were until he began to insist that Copernicus's theory was more than a hypothesis? (And in the absence of observable parallax, that could not be maintained.) Everyone gets a caricature of the story.

My uncle who was born in 1902 was a professor of physical chemistry at Stanford and he got Galileo all wrong.

In 17th century England they were using the ordeal to try for witchcraft. Though the Spanish Inquisition did use so-called "gentle torture" it had, by the standards of the time, advanced due process standards, and resulted in far fewer deaths than the witch trials of Protestant Europe.

It was Dominicans (mostly) in Spain who argued for civil rights for the Indians and, notably, that the fact that American nation were not Christian did not make it opoen season on them.

To say the Greeks et al had ideas similar to the University is being over generous. Bologna, Paris, Oxford, et al.were unprecedented.

It's a popular work, but the sources are in Thomas E. Woods,Jr. How the Catholic Church Built Western Civilization. The good thing about popular books is they don't take long to read. This one has a very helpful bibliography.

1,479 posted on 04/18/2011 12:39:25 AM PDT by Mad Dawg (Oh Mary, conceived without sin, pray for us who have recourse to thee.)
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To: roamer_1

Thank you for the history lesson.


1,496 posted on 04/18/2011 5:56:43 AM PDT by metmom (Welfare was never meant to be a career choice.)
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To: roamer_1
Lots of info. Thank YOU!!


1,519 posted on 04/18/2011 7:05:34 AM PDT by presently no screen name
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To: roamer_1

Excellent and verifiable history lesson. Thank you.


1,785 posted on 04/18/2011 9:46:26 PM PDT by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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