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To: MarkBsnr

Your implication was that celibacy was the norm for priests from the beginning of the Church, was it not?

That’s is not a misreading of your post, but a deception on your part not wholly supported by Vatican historical accounts (e.g Council of Pisa in 1135).

1074-Pope Gregory VII said anyone to be ordained must first pledge celibacy: ‘priests [must] first escape from the clutches of their wives.’

1095-Pope Urban II had priests’ wives sold into slavery, children were abandoned. (The Synod of Melfi under Pope Urban II in 1089 imposed slavery on the wives of priests.)

(Interesting side note on Vatican history:

The legitimacy of slavery is incorporated in the Corpus Iuris Canonici, promulgated by Pope Gregory IX which remained official law of the Church until 1913. Canon lawyers worked out four “just titles” for holding slaves: slaves captured in war, persons condemned to slavery for a crime; persons selling themselves into slavery, including a father selling his child; children of a mother who is a slave. )

You wrote: “Thus has it been almost from the beginning of Church history. Your statement is wrong. “

This was not the case. Celibacy did not become a requirement until 12 centuries later.

I for one believe priests should be celibate as you can not serve God in that vocation and a wife/family at the same time.


381 posted on 03/27/2011 9:15:02 AM PDT by WaterBoard
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To: WaterBoard
Your implication was that celibacy was the norm for priests from the beginning of the Church, was it not?

No, it was not; it was encouraged and increasingly strongly. The references I posted included bishops such as Augustine who lived with their wives continently.

That’s is not a misreading of your post, but a deception on your part

I posted excerpts from a Vatican document quoting early Church writings and Patristic writings. I do not deceive and don't appreciate being accused of it.

1074-Pope Gregory VII said anyone to be ordained must first pledge celibacy: ‘priests [must] first escape from the clutches of their wives.’

Nice quotes. Celibacy was initially encouraged, not mandatory; and I said that the belief strengthened especially in the West over time.

1095-Pope Urban II had priests’ wives sold into slavery, children were abandoned. (The Synod of Melfi under Pope Urban II in 1089 imposed slavery on the wives of priests.)

Not that I'd doubt your accuracy, but would you happen to have a reference for this claim?

The legitimacy of slavery is incorporated in the Corpus Iuris Canonici, promulgated by Pope Gregory IX which remained official law of the Church until 1913. Canon lawyers worked out four “just titles” for holding slaves: slaves captured in war, persons condemned to slavery for a crime; persons selling themselves into slavery, including a father selling his child; children of a mother who is a slave. )

Also interesting in terms of its veracity. Do you have a link for this? Please also note that in terms of slaveholding, very few Catholics ever held slaves in the US - it was a predominantly Protestant practice.

You wrote: “Thus has it been almost from the beginning of Church history. Your statement is wrong. “ This was not the case. Celibacy did not become a requirement until 12 centuries later.

Look up my posts. I never claimed that it was a requirement.

I for one believe priests should be celibate as you can not serve God in that vocation and a wife/family at the same time.

That is how the Church leans. Priests are encouraged to be celibate and bishops must be.

391 posted on 03/27/2011 10:04:24 AM PDT by MarkBsnr (I would not believe in the Gospel if the authority of the Catholic Church did not move me to do so..)
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