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To: betty boop; DManA; M. Espinola; topcat54; ShadowAce; jy8z; The Theophilus; Dr. Eckleburg; ...
Thanks for the article. As a young seeker, I attended Lutheran services at the college chapel -- but was actually recruited there into an esoteric cult that took the works of Gurdjieff and P D Ospensky as their scriptures. Quite evil stuff -- more mind-bending than psychedelic drugs. Our spirits were made to connect with an external and eternal God, not to recursively seek internal truth internally.

The tragedy of pietism is -- it reduces Christianity to a set of internal "spiritual" experiences, a religion of "the heart." Historically, Christianity has been taught and practiced as a total world-view, that applied to all aspects of reality. An objective map of the real world, not just a tourist guide to one's own "inner light."

You can't trump a world view -- such as humanism, or Islam -- with a navel view. Besides, other players in the market can vend even more vivid experiences. To cite theologian Debby Boone, "How can it be wrong, when it feels so right? As I said, in the concluding paragraph of my dissertation,

It's happening now -- American evangelicals are losing most of their children.
9 posted on 03/12/2011 3:26:08 PM PST by RJR_fan ("Be kind to every person you meet. For every person is fighting a great battle." St. Ephraim)
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To: RJR_fan; betty boop; DManA; M. Espinola; topcat54; ShadowAce; jy8z; The Theophilus; Lee N. Field
Our spirits were made to connect with an external and eternal God, not to recursively seek internal truth internally.

The tragedy of pietism is -- it reduces Christianity to a set of internal "spiritual" experiences, a religion of "the heart." Historically, Christianity has been taught and practiced as a total world-view, that applied to all aspects of reality. An objective map of the real world, not just a tourist guide to one's own "inner light."

You can't trump a world view -- such as humanism, or Islam -- with a navel view. Besides, other players in the market can vend even more vivid experiences. To cite theologian Debby Boone, "How can it be wrong, when it feels so right?" As I said, in the concluding paragraph of my dissertation,

Unless religious people today also address issues of corporate structure, objective ethics, public identity, and the transmission of their values to future generations, they will suffer the fate of the losers in Atatürk's culture wars. A transcendent “navel view,” a personal mystical piety, no matter how intense, will never suffice as a substitute for a full-orbed world view. If people are unable to provide their offspring with explanations for life that are at least as big and comprehensive as all of life, their more thoughtful children will jump ship and join forces with ideologies that do seem to offer answers.

AMEN! Great comment.

Regarding those Protestant evangelical young adults not attending church, two points...

1) All the more reason to raise your children as reformed, and not evangelical.

2) The late teens and early twenties are the time when young people define themselves in opposition to their upbringing. It's almost unnatural not to "rebel" on some level. I ignored my faith during those years. College encouraged me to think of myself as "enlightened," and I glibly complied.

It wasn't until my brain developed beyond the usual liberal idiocy taught in universities and I had a family of my own that I rushed back to my faith with both arms open.

Regarding "new world religion," all superstition kills. Wherever we find it. It all comes from the same lie -- that men can do what only God can accomplish.

And yes. Our faith should encompass a world view - the entire world and how to deal with all of it in clear terms of God's sovereignty over all things.

"For by him were all things created, that are in heaven, and that are in earth, visible and invisible, whether they be thrones, or dominions, or principalities, or powers: all things were created by him, and for him:

And he is before all things, and by him all things consist." -- Colossians 1:16-17

"All things."

13 posted on 03/12/2011 4:31:52 PM PST by Dr. Eckleburg ("I don't think they want my respect; I think they want my submission." - Flemming Rose)
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To: RJR_fan; Alamo-Girl; xzins; Quix; Dr. Eckleburg; DManA; M. Espinola; topcat54; ShadowAce; jy8z; ...
The tragedy of pietism is — it reduces Christianity to a set of internal "spiritual" experiences, a religion of "the heart." Historically, Christianity has been taught and practiced as a total world-view, that applied to all aspects of reality. An objective map of the real world, not just a tourist guide to one's own "inner light."

Great insight, RJR_fan. Pietism, and the doctrine of one's own "inner light," do represent a reduction of Christianity, in my view. Christianity isn't about "navel-gazing." It isn't about acquiring knowledge; it isn't about "inner spiritual experiences." It's about how we live, how we orient ourselves — to our self, to each other, to our world, and to God, Who Is "external and eternal," not some god "within." JMHO FWIW

It is so discouraging to learn that "new age" doctrines had been smuggled into the Lutheran chapel you attended in your college days. It seems so many churches of many denominations have chosen to accommodate the "Spirit of the Age" rather than defend Christian orthodoxy. Perhaps they think they can better fill the pews in this way. But the fact is, they are caving in to what I consider to be a demonic attack on the Body of Christ.

BTW, I definitely believe that Gurdjieff is a slippery, shifty character. The Russian mathematician and philosopher P. D. Ouspensky was one of his more brilliant students. Funny thing is, I enjoyed a couple of Ouspensky's books very much — A New Model of the Universe and Tertium Organum. Full of interesting stories and insights, but not any kind of "system." However, I suspected The Fourth Way — supposedly the best record of Gurdjieff's teaching — was a total con job. This was confirmed for me later, when I started reading Alice Bailey and Benjamin Creme. They're all working the same "cadge." And I don't now recall what In Search of the Miraculous was even about. So I guess I wasn't terribly impressed by it.

Thank you so very much, RJR_fan, for your wonderful insights!

31 posted on 03/13/2011 11:09:50 AM PDT by betty boop (Seek truth and beauty together; you will never find them apart. — F. M. Cornford)
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