“That is, only the very Early Church was the “authentic” church, and everything since is a distortion or deformation of authentic Christian belief and practice.”
Well, not the very early Church per se—there were a lot of strange notions developed in the early church. And you can see much effort by Paul in the Epistles to get them straightened out. I meant Jesus Christ and the Apostles. I’m not a sola scriptura guy simply because the Holy Spirit is given to us. OTOH, John is really clear at the end of Revelation about what he thinks about adding to and subtracting from scripture. So I do believe that scripture is the number-one-with-a-bullet standard against which to judge doctrine. That keeps us from mistaking the Holy Spirit for our own ideas.
When we read scripture, we have to read it from the perspective of the authors, who were all second temple Jews and used words and ideas in that context. Especially Paul, Luke and James, who were fervent, observant and highly educated Jews. E.g., Paul spoke the language and thought the ideas of the Pharisees because he was a high-ranking Pharisee. Neither Paul nor the Pharisees (nor the Saducees) were very clear (or appeared to be very interested) in what happened between death and our rebirth with our resurrection bodies. (In fact, we have almost no information about what Jesus did between the crucifixion and the resurrection.)
The idea of a soul that goes down into the body at birth and then flits off at death is a Greek notion that was quite alien to second temple Jews. Those were not ideas the Apostles grew up with and we should be very careful about reading them into their words unless they are very clear about it.
So at least in our household, when my son asks what happens after we die, I tell him that eventually we are going to get wonderful resurrection bodies and live for eternity in the New Earth. On that, I think all Christian denominations should agree. But what happens between death and then is not at all clear.
It may be there is some conscious continuity between death and our resurrection. As you say, something leaves the body at death. And certainly the martyrs demanding justice before the throne suggests that there is continued consciousness at least for some of us. But whether we regain consciousness before our resurrection is not a question God chose to answer. “I don’t know” is a perfectly OK answer and I’m always suspicious about filling in big blank spaces like that with human doctrine.
Thanks for your response. I didn’t mean to write this much. That’s just how it came out.
And the way it came out was just — beautiful.
We have no quarrel in these matters, dear brother in Christ.
Which is good; since we both confess that we have no direct knowledge of them anyway.
So here is an idle question: Did not Paul also speak Greek? (That's a serious question for the simple reason that I don't know the answer to it.) Paul was not just a highly cultured Jew, he was also a Roman citizen — and presumably aware of Rome's "intellectual culture," which was at the time largely classical Greek.
And don't forget it was Paul who first "gave up on" the Jews, and then took his evangelization directly to "the Greeks."
God's plan infallibly continues....
Thank you oh so very much for your outstanding essay/post, dear ModelBreaker!
Dear ModelBreaker, reflecting further on your last post, I think the question you actually proposed may have been: Is there continuity of personal consciousness between death and resurrection? But you already answered your own question, when you said: "In fact, we have almost no information about what Jesus did between the crucifixion and the resurrection."
To me, this is the real problem of the "God of the gaps." Because we cannot know what Jesus experienced in this interval, there is no possible way for us humans ever to explain what happens to us when we are in similar circumstances; that is "in the tomb."
The Good News Is: Our Lord rose and returned to us in a glorified body, and He was perfectly "conscious." He was Himself — Son of God, Logos, Alpha and Omega. That is, the "tomb experience" did not defeat Him.
And we are made in His image and reflection....
All thanks and praise be unto God!
YOU SAID: “may be there is some conscious continuity between death and our resurrection. As you say, something leaves the body at death. And certainly the martyrs demanding justice before the throne suggests that there is continued consciousness at least for some of us. But whether we regain consciousness before our resurrection is not a question God chose to answer. “I don’t know” is a perfectly OK answer and I’m always suspicious about filling in big blank spaces like that with human doctrine.”
Mat 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
Mat 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.
I also remind you that Moses(who had died and was buried by God in a secret place) was seen with Elijah(who didn’t die) and Jesus(who was to die and be resurrected) on the Mount of Transfiguration. Seems to me that those who die have a consciousness after death based on that event. Christ told the thief that he would be with him “in paradise” the structure of the conversation suggesting that the thief would have a consciousness of his entering in and “being with Christ”.