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To: betty boop

“The two spiritual/philosophical systems — East (Buddhism) and West (Christianity/classical philosophy) — are similar in their basic understanding of the structure of human psyche as a “three-bodied system” consisting of consciousness (rational intellect), unconsciousness (feeling), and organic instinct. They also agree the soul, psyche, is eternal.”

Betty, I don’t think this correctly characterizes the Christian perspective of Christ or the Apostles. After Christianity absorbed Hellenism, this notion of the soul is perhaps correct. But second temple Judaism (and therefore Christianity) believed that God created and maintain our bodies. We are our bodies and the bodies are God’s creation. Jesus resurrection and our later resurrections will be bodily resurrections but “glorified.” God created our bodies and who we are. I don’t see why the notion of a separate soul is necessary for the Creator to resurrect us. He spoke the universe into being. The importance of the body is demonstrated by the crucifixion as the fulfillment of the law and it’s central role in Christianity. The body (the Temple of God) was crucified and rebuilt in three days. Had Jesus not been made of real stuff and genuinely suffered, the whole thing falls apart.

I know there is some ambiguity in the New Testament on this issue. But I think it is dangerous to impose our modern notion of a “soul”, which is informed mainly by Greek thought, into first century Judaism or Christianity. Recall that Revelation ends in the creation of a new heaven and earth, where we will spend eternity. Paul and John are quite clear we will spend it there in glorified bodies, not as disembodied souls.


15 posted on 03/12/2011 4:39:00 PM PST by ModelBreaker
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To: ModelBreaker; Alamo-Girl; xzins; YHAOS; MHGinTN; Quix; Dr. Eckleburg; metmom; spirited irish; ...
Betty, I don’t think this correctly characterizes the Christian perspective of Christ or the Apostles. After Christianity absorbed Hellenism, this notion of the soul is perhaps correct. But second temple Judaism (and therefore Christianity) believed that God created and maintain our bodies. We are our bodies and the bodies are God’s creation. Jesus resurrection and our later resurrections will be bodily resurrections but “glorified.” God created our bodies and who we are. I don’t see why the notion of a separate soul is necessary for the Creator to resurrect us. He spoke the universe into being. The importance of the body is demonstrated by the crucifixion as the fulfillment of the law and it’s central role in Christianity. The body (the Temple of God) was crucified and rebuilt in three days. Had Jesus not been made of real stuff and genuinely suffered, the whole thing falls apart.

I don't know how the soul could ever be considered as "separate" from the body during its mortal existence. What I do know is based on observation: A corpse is clearly no longer a living body. Something has "gone out of it." And that something seems to be the difference between a living person and a dead body. Whatever that "something" is, its "departure" places the physical body fully and irreversibly under the control of the Second Law of Thermodynamics. "Ashes to ashes, dust to dust."

Or am I observing an "illusion?"

A wise man once said, "Whereof one cannot speak, thereof one must be silent." I do not know what form the resurrection takes, although our tradition tells us that it is resurrection in the form of a "glorified" body. If so, I really don't see why a soul "separated" at death cannot in principle be "reconnected" to a glorified body when resurrection takes place. God alone knows these details. To me, it is not the manner or the form the resurrection takes that is important, but that it does take place. Jesus Christ Himself is our proof that this is so.

Of course there is ambiguity in the New Testament on this issue. As Francis Schaeffer put it, "God tells us truthfully, but not exhaustively." Which is to say that we do not fully know what God knows, nor can we. Ever.

I sense — perhaps incorrectly — that you believe the Christian doctrine of soul was distorted by the absorption of Greek thought into Christian theology, and that the only true doctrine of soul was pretty much buried by these "super-added" materials after the first or second century A.D. That is, only the very Early Church was the "authentic" church, and everything since is a distortion or deformation of authentic Christian belief and practice.

To pursue that line of thinking, however, would probably sink us into long-standing doctrinal disputes existing between the Roman Church and the various denominations of Reformed Church. I am not the least interested in engaging in any such dispute. Of all things, I pray God to heal the divisions of the holy Body of Christ, to stop Christians from "quarreling" with one another, so we can stand together to face our common Enemy — who loves us to be engaged in such "disputes." They only prove that we have turned our faces away from our Lord....

As for myself, I just believe that Saint Justin Martyr was right: The Incarnation, Crucifixion, and Resurrection of Jesus Christ was the fulfillment, not only of the Patriarchs and Prophets of Judaism, but also of classical Greek philosophy.

Just some thoughts, dear ModelBreaker. FWIW. Thank you ever so much for your deeply sensitive and moving essay/post!

42 posted on 03/13/2011 2:28:57 PM PDT by betty boop (Seek truth and beauty together; you will never find them apart. — F. M. Cornford)
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