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To: HarleyD

Bell’s promo video is a series of questions. He doesn’t state that Gandhi isn’t lost. He asks about the theology of a person who is sure they know where Gandhi ended up. He asks provocative questions to help us think through the implications of what we believe. Then one blogger jumps to horrendous conclusions because of the questions and 20,000 people give it a thumbs up. Again, with the level of reading comprehension being shown here, why would would trust what any of these individuals would say about the Bible? Piper and most others jumping to conclusions about this book have not read it.

I don’t pretend to know the eternal destiny of anyone, because the mysteries of God and his work in the hearts of people is not fully revealed to me. I believe we can only know the Father and experience heaven through the grace of Jesus, and that without receiving that grace we are lost to the fires of hell (is that clear enough?). I do not pretend to know the extent and constraints of exactly how God decides to work that out. I believe Gandhi went where God decided he should be. For me to say otherwise is blasphemous and arrogant.

The Calvin quote can be found on the Calvin College website,http://www.ccel.org/ccel/schaff/hcc8.iv.xvi.xxii.html. It is in Philip Schaff’s History of the Christian Church. It is a textbook written in the 1800’s by a Reformed writer, and considered reliable. Here is a full-length scholarly book that focuses on the execution surrounding this quote. http://www.amazon.com/Calvin-Murder-Servetus-Stanford-Rives/dp/1439208689


91 posted on 03/06/2011 7:46:43 PM PST by mongrel
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To: mongrel
Bell’s promo video is a series of questions. He doesn’t state that Gandhi isn’t lost. He asks about the theology of a person who is sure they know where Gandhi ended up.

Where else would Gandhi end up? Boise, Idaho? It isn't difficult to tell what happens to a person who reject Jesus as their Savior.

Piper and most others jumping to conclusions about this book have not read it.

I've never understood this argument. It's like saying how can I jump to conclusions about Mormons when I have never read the writings of Joseph Smith. We read a synopsis that this gentleman does not believe in hell and torment. Scripture, OTOH, through our Lord Jesus clearly states hell does exist and people will face torment. Why would someone want to waste their time reading something that clearly contradict scripture and the Lord Jesus unless they don't have a great deal of faith in scripture? I can understand Piper's position. It's garbage theology written by a poet. Doesn't the scriptures tell us that there is no end to the making of books?

I don’t pretend to know the eternal destiny of anyone, because the mysteries of God and his work in the hearts of people is not fully revealed to me.

Than obviously you would not make a good missionary. It is clear what the eternal destiny of people are who die in their sins if one has an elementry understanding of scripture. It is far more difficult to determine who are the tares and who are the wheat. But to know who are not going to heaven is usually very clear because they'll tell you.

The Calvin quote can be found on the Calvin College website...

No doubt you read the entire passage that Calvin struggled with this view during a time when heretics were often put to death. Today we see the results of embracing heretics and their doctrine. People like Bell are considered interesting and have points but yet people like Piper or Calvin are horrible, evil people.

We are commanded by God to put heretics out of the church. Instead we embrace them because we of a flawed concept of a "loving God".

148 posted on 03/07/2011 5:01:29 PM PST by HarleyD
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