[boatbums]

And I think the promise to you and your house is direct to you, and indirect to your house - Raising them up in the ways of YHWH does not guarantee their salvation - but it opens the door to them, that they might find YHWH by honoring their father and mother...

I have to agree with you here. When Paul speaks about a believing woman married to an unbeliever, he tells her not to divorce him because of his unbelief, but that the husband was "sanctified" by the believing wife. Now we know this cannot mean that the unbelieving husband was saved without him needing to become a believer in Christ, but that he was "set apart" - the meaning of sanctified. I think this is the same intent with the households of believers. Without their influence and the presence of the Holy Spirit in their lives, they would have little chance of hearing the Gospel and believing. Of course, God is a rewarder of all who seek him, but there is a "head-start" kind of when there is a Dad and Mom who are Christians and the effect they should and will have on their children.

[roamer_1]

[roamer_1:] And I think the promise to you and your house is direct to you, and indirect to your house - Raising them up in the ways of YHWH does not guarantee their salvation - but it opens the door to them, that they might find YHWH by honoring their father and mother...

I have to agree with you here. When Paul speaks about a believing woman married to an unbeliever, he tells her not to divorce him because of his unbelief, but that the husband was "sanctified" by the believing wife. Now we know this cannot mean that the unbelieving husband was saved without him needing to become a believer in Christ, but that he was "set apart" - the meaning of sanctified. I think this is the same intent with the households of believers. Without their influence and the presence of the Holy Spirit in their lives, they would have little chance of hearing the Gospel and believing. Of course, God is a rewarder of all who seek him, but there is a "head-start" kind of when there is a Dad and Mom who are Christians and the effect they should and will have on their children.

Thx, and great post. There is no doubt in my mind that I can point to many children of very committed believers who are *not* holy, despite their parents best efforts. I could point to more than a few who died in that condition. So the idea of "covering" must not mean what others suggest, else the bare facts on the ground would be different.

It is my fervent wish that the Blood of Christ is such that It's saving grace covers far more than we know - Since I know His power and grace is capable of saving every single soul that has ever been born...

But I must take the position that the Bible permits: That NO ONE is without sin, that NO ONE can be saved without belief in Christ, and that individual mandate is strongly enforced, as few can walk the narrow path, and MANY find the wide one.