How The Reformation Changed The Church

frontline.org ^ | Dr. Peter Hammond

[IrishCatholic]

Can’t even get those facts straight. Why am I surprised?

[IrishCatholic]

Well, now I have your picture to go along with what you post. Thanks, it explains a lot.

[Quix]

BTW its been a long time since non-Catholics shook in their boots from an arrogant papist overlord. They don’t do it now. Save your imperium for one that cares.

very well put.

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

LOL! I am not questioning God’s Word, you are! Jesus said the gates of hell would not prevail against the Church, Jesus said He would be with us always, even to the end of the world. Now the fact you can’t detect what you would call the Church before the 16th century, tells me you might not know what the true Church looks like. hint: it is the Body of Christ on earth. hint #2: it has set the canon of Scripture based on the Faith received from the Apostles. hint #3: it is not a man made institution, but rather it is a Divine Institution. hint #4: it is 2,000 years old, not 500 years old.

[HossB86]

“I am offending Catholic hating bigots.”

Actually, er... no. You’re not. What you’re doing is making yourself look like the southbound end of a northbound horse.

And to boot, you’re acting like you have a paper head.

Sorry, dude — but them’s the facts.

Hoss

[CynicalBear]

>> i am sure you can point to the Roman dogma that backs this up?<<

I’ll help RuMomof7 out here. The Pople obviously knows, right? Let’s see who he prays to.
Prayer of Pope Pius XII
In Honor of the Immaculate Conception

http://catholicism.about.com/od/tothevirginmary/qt/Honor_Immacula.htm

Prayer of Pope Pius XII

Enraptured by the splendor of your heavenly beauty, and impelled by the anxieties of the world, we cast ourselves into your arms, O Immaculate Mother of Jesus and our Mother, Mary, confident of finding in your most loving heart appeasement of our ardent desires, and a safe harbor from the tempests which beset us on every side.

Though degraded by our faults and overwhelmed by infinite misery, we admire and praise the peerless richness of sublime gifts with which God has filled you, above every other mere creature, from the first moment of your conception until the day on which, after your assumption into heaven, He crowned you Queen of the Universe.

O crystal fountain of faith, bathe our minds with the eternal truths! O fragrant Lily of all holiness, captivate our hearts with your heavenly perfume! O Conqueress of evil and death, inspire in us a deep horror of sin, which makes the soul detestable to God and a slave of hell!

O well-beloved of God, hear the ardent cry which rises up from every heart. Bend tenderly over our aching wounds. Convert the wicked, dry the tears of the afflicted and oppressed, comfort the poor and humble, quench hatreds, sweeten harshness, safeguard the flower of purity in youth, protect the holy Church, make all men feel the attraction of Christian goodness. In your name, resounding harmoniously in heaven, may they recognize that they are brothers, and that the nations are members of one family, upon which may there shine forth the sun of a universal and sincere peace.

Receive, O most sweet Mother, our humble supplications, and above all obtain for us that, one day, happy with you, we may repeat before your throne that hymn which today is sung on earth around your altars: You are all-beautiful, O Mary! You are the glory, you are the joy, you are the honor of our people! Amen.

I would call that worship and praying directly to Mary.

[Quix]

NOT by a loooooonnnnnnnnnnnng shot!

Proddys just think your posts are absurdly
inaccurate
false
wrong
UnBiblical
untrue
historically INaccurate
DECEPTIVE
HOGWASH,
DAMNABLE
DESTRUCTIVE to authentic Christianity
silly
pathetic
shallow
hypocritical
heretical
. . .


HOWEVER,
certainly nothing to take personal offense over.

That would be like being offended by a burping drunken lobotomized gnat.

What a waste of energy & emotion that would be!

I suggest that it would be arrogant presumption to assume that anything you post could rise to the level of offending a thick-skinned Proddy.

We're not the ones running around with such thin-skins that monkeys in wheel barrows have to follow along behind stuffing our organs back in.

[metmom]

Right, but you forgot to add celibate priests, popes, and nuns, who have been forbidden to marry, and Lent, Marti Gras “fat tuesdays,” can’t eat fish on fridays, etc., to your list. The apostle Paul said these things are identifiers of what became the Papacy:

1Tim. 4:1 Now the Spirit speaketh expressly, that in the latter times some shall depart from the faith, giving heed to seducing spirits, and doctrines of devils; 2 Speaking lies in hypocrisy; having their conscience seared with a hot iron; 3 Forbidding to marry, and commanding to abstain from meats, which God hath created to be received with thanksgiving of them which believe and know the truth.

The Papacy claims to be the original church, according to this passage they are an institution that has departed from the original faith. The apostate church, in other words, not Apostolic, apostate.

That passage follows chapter three which outlines the qualifications for deacon and elder. Paul then goes on to warn about the signs of cults. Since deacons and overseers are to be the husband of one wife, then the warning sign of a cult or false teaching is the demand to abstain from marriage.

Therefore, the interpretation is most accurately dealing with the signs of cults and being led astray, as you pointed out. The Catholic church demands abstinence from marriage for its clergy and forbids the eating of foods.

Here are chapters three and four.

1 Timothy 3 1The saying is trustworthy: If anyone aspires to the office of overseer, he desires a noble task. 2Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober-minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, 3not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. 4He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, 5for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God’s church? 6He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. 7Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil.

8 Deacons likewise must be dignified, not double-tongued, not addicted to much wine, not greedy for dishonest gain. 9They must hold the mystery of the faith with a clear conscience. 10And let them also be tested first; then let them serve as deacons if they prove themselves blameless. 11 Their wives likewise must be dignified, not slanderers, but sober-minded, faithful in all things. 12Let deacons each be the husband of one wife, managing their children and their own households well. 13For those who serve well as deacons gain a good standing for themselves and also great confidence in the faith that is in Christ Jesus.

14I hope to come to you soon, but I am writing these things to you so that, 15if I delay, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, a pillar and buttress of the truth. 16Great indeed, we confess, is the mystery of godliness:

He was manifested in the flesh, vindicated by the Spirit, seen by angels, proclaimed among the nations, believed on in the world, taken up in glory.

1 Timothy 4 1Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, 2through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared, 3 who forbid marriage and require abstinence from foods that God created to be received with thanksgiving by those who believe and know the truth. 4For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with thanksgiving, 5for it is made holy by the word of God and prayer.

6 If you put these things before the brothers, you will be a good servant of Christ Jesus, being trained in the words of the faith and of the good doctrine that you have followed. 7Have nothing to do with irreverent, silly myths. Rather train yourself for godliness; 8for while bodily training is of some value, godliness is of value in every way, as it holds promise for the present life and also for the life to come. 9The saying is trustworthy and deserving of full acceptance. 10For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all people, especially of those who believe.

11Command and teach these things. 12 Let no one despise you for your youth, but set the believers an example in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith, in purity. 13Until I come, devote yourself to the public reading of Scripture, to exhortation, to teaching. 14 Do not neglect the gift you have, which was given you by prophecy when the council of elders laid their hands on you. 15Practice these things, immerse yourself in them, so that all may see your progress. 16 Keep a close watch on yourself and on the teaching. Persist in this, for by so doing you will save both yourself and your hearers.

[Quix]

Well put.

Though the horse’s union may rise up in protest.

[one Lord one faith one baptism]

“I would call that worship and praying directly to Mary”

that would make you 50% correct, it is praying to Mary, it is not worshipping Mary.

The Catholic Church teaches worship is due God alone, Father, Son and Holy Spirit.

I know you don’t believe in the Trinity, so you have other issues to work on without worrying about Mary.

[HossB86]

Ooohhhh.... witty. AND mature...

How old are you? 3? 4?

“I am rubber, you are glue — whatever you say bounces off me and sticks to you... nyah, nyah, nayh, nyah, nyaaaaaaah.”

Sheesh. Last time I saw a display of maturity like this was when I was in third grade.

Hoss

[IrishCatholic]

I guess I am offending Catholic Hating Bigots.

[presently no screen name]

And we now find Catholics bragging about the very things existing in their church that Luther was ex-communicated for advocating.

Exactly!!! And ex-communicating him was the least of it.

It would be nice to see some Catholic actually condemn the Inquisition for the abomination that it was,

They can't, they aren't allow to go against their manipulative church. These wimps are afraid of being condemned by the church and go to hell or something. Then can go against The Word but not their church. That's why Luther stands out - he did what he could in that environment for THE TRUTH! What a testimony he and Tyndale left with us.

[MarkBsnr]

OK, RC'S start your ENGINES . . . errr start your WEASEL WORDS AND RATIONALIZATIONS!

Wow, you really like this peacebyjesus website.

Just remember that they are against you all that have smooth crosses: http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/BewareTheSmoothCross.html. You guys are all smooth cross types, right? What else do they tell us? http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/BIBLE-PRAYERS.html tells us of (gasp) prayers to Jesus. You'd better get out your handy dandy antiCatholic exorcism kit, but wait - these guys aren't Catholic by a long shot.

But we have the righteous Benny Hinn to fall back on, right? Oh noes. http://peacebyjesus.witnesstoday.org/Hinn-trueorfalse.html tells us that: Not the least of such teachers is Benny Hinn, whose TV show, This Is Your Day! aired in 132 countries in 2004, making it the most widely disseminated program in the world. However his doctrines are not all Heavenly as too often they are clearly contrary to the established revelation of God (the Bible), while his prophecies make a mockery of a Biblical prophet. Though we are commanded to “Prove all things” by that proven source, the Bible, and are shown that discernment thereby is a mark of maturity (Mal. 3:16-18; Heb. 5:14), multitudes (many of which are sincerely in need of a miracle or who may be basically sign seekers) uncritically accept his words and the doctrines he promotes.

Consistent with their laxity as disciples, many followers of Mr. Hinn, when confronted with Biblical criticism of him by qualified men of God (2Tim. 4:2; Titus 1:10-13), seek to invoke Psalm 105:15: “Touch not mine anointed, and do MY prophets no harm.” This indeed is to be avoided in it's true application - that of a warning to those who would do evil to His people or harm a true man of God for speaking and working consistent with the Word of God. Yet the same Word of God reveals that even leaders can be disciplined (1Tim. 5:19; 20), and commands them to warn heretics and reject those that will not repent (Titus 3:10), and for believers to correct a brother who is rebellious (2Ths. 3:14, 15); and enjoins us not to fear those whose predictions fail (Dt. 18:22), and to turn away from those who live disorderly, and not after the Scriptures (2Ths. 3:6;), and from teachers like unto those who suppose “gain is Godliness” (1Tim. 6:5). Benny Hinn is guilty of the above, yet has overall shown that he thinks himself to be above Biblical correction.

Whatever shall we do, Quix? The very site that you have been trumpeting for weeks trashes the Pentecostals. I don't know what to suggest other than to embrace God and the Jesus of Scripture rather than the snake handlers of recent memory.

[HossB86]

“I guess I am offending Catholic Hating Bigots.”

Nope.

Just looking silly. And childish.

But, please — DO continue. It proves the points that are being made...

Every. Time. You. Post.

Hoss

[metmom]

I am offending Catholic hating bigots.

No you're not.

What you are doing is reinforcing the decision of many to leave the Catholic church. If this kind of speech to *outsiders*, or heretics if you will, is still prevalent in Catholicism today, (and nothing posted on FR by FRoman Catholics or other Catholic rites indicates otherwise) it just goes to show that NOTHING has changed in the decades since I left the church.

Two hundred posts and counting and STILL waiting for some Catholic to address the topic of the thread.

[presently no screen name]

If you feel vile and dirty after reading my posts, maybe you are developing a conscience.

According to you - in order to develop a conscience one needs to fill it with vileness? More RCC teachings?

Let's see what God's Word says..
"But the things that come out of the mouth come from the heart, and these make a man 'unclean."

Good night.

[MarkBsnr]

That’s right. You had problems with your dentures, I recall. Are you better now?

[HossB86]

“I would call that worship and praying directly to Mary.”

Yup. Without a doubt. But, just wait for the ‘explanation’ — it’s gonna be a doozy.

Hoss