Posted on 01/23/2011 11:30:29 AM PST by Dr. Eckleburg
Ah...
Baptism; with it’s shady, shaky origins somewhere between OT and NT...
One would think, since JESUS said that He should be baptised “to fulfill all righteousness”, that the ritual would have been decribed in DETAIL in the Scriptures.
Surely GOD had the foreknowledge to see the confusion that men have added to it by the lack of their knowledge.
If it is to be a REQUIREMENT for salvation; why is it NOT mentioned at all in Acts chapter 15?
The context of Acts 15 is found in the first verse...
“And certain men which came down from Judea taught the BRETHERN, .......
The ‘brethern’ had already obeyed the salvation message found in Acts 2:38,39.
Lord bless.
5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees stood up and said, “The Gentiles must be circumcised and required to keep the law of Moses.”
The ‘brethern’ had already obeyed the salvation message found in Acts 2:38,39.
**5 Then some of the believers who belonged to the party of the Pharisees**
You like verse 5? That’s GREAT!
Key words: “believers” (converts of the Lord, no doubt), and “belonged” (past tense, after all, do you really think those guys would still be welcome at the Pharisees’ favorite hangouts? Remember this is after Paul ‘turned traitor’ and made his ‘BATescape’ over the wall in Damascus).
**Sorry; but the brethern were ISRAELITES; not GENTILES.**
Are you absolutely certain?
Why would they be telling converted Jews to be circumcised when they most likely already were before conversion? Hello?
The events in chp. 15 come sometime after Cornelius and his household (who, as we know were Gentiles), were born again. So, there was possibly a number of born again Gentiles in Antioch when Paul returned (latter part of chap 14), declaring the great work that God had wrought among the Gentiles during his first missionary journey.
Thanks for the reply!
Well... that's what the book SAYS...
They said this to GENTILES; just like I posted.
1 Certain people came down from Judea to Antioch and were teaching the believers: “Unless you are circumcised, according to the custom taught by Moses, you cannot be saved.” 2 This brought Paul and Barnabas into sharp dispute and debate with them. So Paul and Barnabas were appointed, along with some other believers, to go up to Jerusalem to see the apostles and elders about this question. 3 The church sent them on their way, and as they traveled through Phoenicia and Samaria, they told how the Gentiles had been converted. This news made all the believers very glad. 4 When they came to Jerusalem, they were welcomed by the church and the apostles and elders, to whom they reported everything God had done through them.
It sounds as though you are traveling from Judea to Antioch; too...
Later on in Acts 19, was Paul ‘traveling from Judea to Antioch’ when he met up with the certain disciples in Ephesus that he REBAPTIZED (in the name of Jesus), laid hands on them and witnessed their receiving the Holy Ghost speaking in tongues?
1 Corinthians 1
14 I thank God that I baptized none of you except Crispus and Gaius, 15 lest anyone should say that I had baptized in my own name. 16 Yes, I also baptized the household of Stephanas. Besides, I do not know whether I baptized any other. 17 For Christ did not send me to baptize, but to preach the gospel, not with wisdom of words, lest the cross of Christ should be made of no effect.
The ol’ ‘sent me not to baptise’ legalistic interpretation.
So Paul was disobedient when he baptized those in Corinth? and Thyatira? and Philipi? and the afore mentioned Ephesus?
You should have, at the least, included verses 12 and 13, for they explain the reason for Paul’s rebuke.
The obvious context is that converts were carnally bragging about WHO baptized them, instead of the fact that they were baptized in the name of He who was crucified for them.
With all the scriptural instances of the Lord, then his apostles, teaching baptism in the name of Jesus, the only reasons to discount it’s importance is personal (”the late ______ wasn’t baptized in in the name of Jesus”), or financial (”If we make this scriptural ordinance about baptism essential, we’ll see people leave and go to some other church”. $<$$$$).
I ask, “Who is it that absolutely does NOT want anyone baptized in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins?”
I could spend countless hours contemplating who, that has passed away, was saved (in other words, judging souls). That’s not my job as a witness of Jesus Christ. But, people want to feel good, reassured, if you will. I have been to many funerals, and every time the deceased was assumed to be in heaven. That’s 100% saved. Granted, I’ve never been to a funeral for a muslim, and probably wouldn’t go anyway.
The Word; it’s straight and it’s narrow. That’s why the Lord said it would go so far as to split families.
There is no need to INTERPRET, when a fellow can merely READ.
So Paul was disobedient when he baptized those in Corinth? and Thyatira? and Philipi? and the afore mentioned Ephesus?
Huh?
What kind of a question is THIS?
The Word; it’s straight and it’s narrow.
Let's cut to the chase:
Is baptism required for salvation or not?
**For Christ did not send me to baptize...There is no need to INTERPRET, when a fellow can merely READ.**
His was not solely a ‘John the baptist’ mission, but in the course of preaching the Gospel, he DID baptise people.
But if it helps, just get out your scissors, and clip out all the instances of Paul baptizing souls in Acts, including his ADMISSION to doing so in 1 Cor. 1:14 & 16.
**Let’s cut to the chase:
Is baptism required for salvation or not?**
Don’t put your scissors away yet.
And don’t bother to point out the repentant thief on the cross. Jesus kept the Law right up to the cross, and the new testament was not in effect until the death of the testator (Heb. 9:15-17).
Matt. 28:19, Mark 16:16, Luke 24:47 (fulfilled in Acts 2:38) and John 3:5 all are commands. Is being willingly disobedient a sin?
Is Acts 2:38 from heaven or of men?
“Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized EVERY ONE of you IN the NAME of JESUS Christ for the REMISSION of SINS, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost”.
The apostles proceeded to baptise people in the name of Jesus:
Acts 8:16;
10:47,48 (yeah, 47 says “Lord”, but surely you know that that would be Jesus)
19:5
That meets the ‘two or three witnesses’ requirement.
There are accounts that just mention that water baptism took place, such as 8:36-39; but how many times do you need to have it spelled out in detail. If you’ve ever been given directions to a place, how many times did you have to ask for part or all of it to be repeated? If you had to ask a fourth or fifth time, were they ready to do hit you over the head (or hang up the phone, should that be the case)?
I fought against this Acts 2:38 message for close to 5 yrs, and had to get knocked down, not unlike Saul/Paul.
Child-like faith. Tell children that they will have their sins remmitted by being baptized in the name of Jesus, and they believe it.
Well, I’ve witnessed to you. You believe otherwise? That’s your right........but, if you show up at ‘the feast’ without a ‘wedding garment’..........
All I want is a Yes or a No.
A plethora of words is not needed.
**A plethora of words is not needed.**
That, from someone who really piles it on in the anti-LDS threads. lol
Just like you, I make my stand with scripture. If you can’t see that as a yes, then you must be a lawyer.
Able offered a better sacrifice.
Enoch walked with God.
Noah moved with fear, building the ark.
Abraham was told to go and live in another place, and did.
Sarah agree to have a child in her old age (she could told Abe “no more sex, you think I want to carry and give birth at my age?)
Moses was told to go and lead the Israelites, and did so.
Would any of the above have been considered faithful had they refused to obey the call?
God’s calling for you to be baptized in his name for the remission of sins. Believe it.
Lord bless
Close: a reader...
Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"
Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."
Close: a reader...
Then they asked him, "What must we do to do the works God requires?"
Jesus answered, "The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent."
So...
...looking at the baptism of Jesus:
Was that a Remission of SINS thing or a baptism in His own Name thing?
**Was that a Remission of SINS thing or a baptism in His own Name thing?**
Of course not. Jesus needed no remission since he was sinless. As I said: Jesus kept the Law right up to the cross, and the new testament was not in effect until the death of the testator (Heb. 9:15-17). “..and without the shedding of blood is NO remission”. (vrs 22)
Except for the show of wisdom in temple, at the age of 12 years, Jesus Christ didn’t begin his ministry until after his baptism. I realize that the priests of the tabernacle were to wash only their hands and feet at the laver(lest they die!), while the Lord’s own baptism was probably complete immersion in the Jordan. But the similarity of washing before serving the people seems harmonious.
**Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”**
The mainstream Christian viewpoint of ‘believing in Jesus’ tends to focus primarily on his sacrifice, leaving his instructions/commandments as ‘optional equipment’.
Just a couple of examples:
“therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them......”. Matt. 7:24
“..the words that I speak unto you, they are spirit, and they are life. But there are some of you that believe not.” John 6:63,64
**..to believe in the one he has sent.”**
The Lord expects one to believe in him, and who he has sent:
“Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through THEIR word..” John 17:20
Nonsense. All good works within us are the fruit of the indwelling Holy Spirit. The true Christian will perform good works because God has ordained them in us.
"For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works, which God hath before ordained that we should walk in them." -- Ephesians 2:10
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