(see below for an illustration of the Romanist scheme of Salvation)
Posted on 01/21/2011 12:26:40 PM PST by marshmallow
That’s what happen when a committee designs a building.
***read what Augustine said about the Catholic Church.***
FWIW I am pretty sure Augustine would have sang a different tune had he seen what the Catholic Church became by the time of the Reformation.
Oh, read what Augustine said about predestination.
I beg to differ.
It’s government work.
Fixed it.
Rather than just letting you spout your usual disdain for everything "16th century", why don't we actually discuss which completely brand new, never before believed doctrines you mean. Would that be something you might be interested in doing, or do you just wanna have fun slamming the Reformation? Go ahead, your turn.
agreed.
i have and so has the whole Church. You do know he was given the title “Doctor of the Church” and is called the “Doctor of Grace” Kinda of hard to say Catholics teach salvation by works and yet believe Catholics accept Augustine!
Can’t be! It seems to function.
It is not, therefore, true, as some affirm that we say, and as that correspondent of yours ventures moreover to write, that “all are forced into sin,” as if they were unwilling, “by the necessity of their flesh;” but if they are already of the age to use the choice of their own mind, they are both retained in sin by their own will, and by their own will are hurried along from sin to sin. For even he who persuades and deceives does not act in them, except that they may commit sin by their will, either by ignorance of the truth or by delight in iniquity, or by both evils,—as well of blindness as of weakness. But this will, which is free in evil things because it takes pleasure in evil, is not free in good things, for the reason that it has not been made free. Nor can a man will any good thing unless he is aided by Him who cannot will evil,—that is, by the grace of God through Jesus Christ our Lord. For “everything which is not of faith is sin.” (Rom. xiv. 23). And thus the good will which withdraws itself from sin is faithful, because the just lives by faith. (Hab. ii. 4). And it pertains to faith to believe on Christ. And no man can believe on Christ—that is, come to Him—unless it be given to him. (Rom. i. 17). No man, therefore, can have a righteous will, unless, with no foregoing merits, he has received the true, that is, the gratuitous grace from above. (Augustine, A Treatise Against Two Letters of the Pelagians, Book 1, Chap. 7)
where have you been, this thread is about “transubstantiation”. i know you don’t like history, but i thank God some people may be reading Church History for the first time and then may actually think, where was my church for the first 1,500 years?
no comment on Augustine’s beliefs listed in #1016? this man is a Christian in your eyes?
But you might want to rethink using it because to the Jews of the day, their beliefs were thousands of years old and Jesus and His Apostles teachings were brand new.
Absolute Truth but brand new.
absolutely! to even ask the question, is further proof you have no clue what the Church teaches. oh, that’s right, Catholics teach we are saved by our “good works”, right?
“i’ll follow 1st century tradition, believed for 2,000 years. you go ahead and follow 16th century tradition, believed for almost 500 years.”
You go right ahead; I don’t believe in ‘tradition’ no matter the century; I believe in Christ, and him crucified for our sins, risen, and coming again.
You take men, I’ll take God’s Word.
Hoss
Of course. You stumbled on the key.
*seems to*
FOTFLOL!!!
i believe that as well! we agree! but i also believe Jesus has His Body on earth, The Church, and He gave it authority. using that authority, The Church set the NT canon, which you accept, so we also agree on Catholic Sacred Tradition! Without the Church, you wouldn’t have the Word of God!
yes, but the difference is the Jews rejected true Divine Revelation, the Reformers were bringing forth new doctrines unheard of to the Church up to that point. you don’t believe what the Reformers taught was new Divine Revelation, such as what St Paul produced do you?
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