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To: James C. Bennett; Alamo-Girl; kosta50; MHGinTN; YHAOS
The paradox clearly exists unresolved by your attempted explanation.

It seems to me the paradox goes away when one stops making God subject to time.

A human creator creates in time, which is sensed as an irreversible series of moments past, present, to future. The past slips away, the future is not yet, and even the present is not really "present" — for as Alamo-Girl has pointed out, there is a lag time between the original perception and its sensory processing before the processed data can be made available to the mind as a cognition. But because this is the way things work for humans "in time," we cannot say that this "model" pertains to God, Who is not in time.

Plus I want to know in what way is the human changed by his creative act? If I knit a sweater, say, in what way am I "changed?" Sure, I had to work with changes in pattern — alternating knit stitches and purls as the pattern requires. But in what way am I changed by this?

If a human is not so changed, then why would you say that God is changed by His creative act?

I think you are trying to apply "human rules" to God, rules of time to the timeless. No wonder you come up with a "huge paradox!"

You wrote that "Time is a scalar quantity." Again, as my dearest sister Alamo-Girl has pointed out, it certainly was thought to be so by Aristotle. An exercise in simple counting demonstrates his point. But Aristotle has been roundly criticized by persons of Pythagorean persuasion, for not seeing that numbers are not merely a countable series, but also possess individual "magnitude." This observation "opens up" time, from a scalar, linear series of passing moments, to time conceived as a volume. Indeed, it seems to me time has to be "volumetric" in order to accommodate the expression of numerical magnitude.

Just look at the critturs on the number line — some of them point to infinite extension; some are even called transcendental numbers. Like pi, for instance. Now that's what I call "magnitude!" Plus check out the primes and perfects — certainly they have a very special character that is not exhausted by their utility as counting numbers.

As ever, our notions about time constrain what we find in the world of experience and what we can know and say about it. If our understanding is faulty, then our knowledge will be faulty and/or incomplete.... And paradoxes will spring up.

Or so it seems to me. Just some thoughts, FWIW.

Thank you so much for sharing your insights into this problem, James C. Bennett!

806 posted on 01/23/2011 10:52:34 AM PST by betty boop (Seek truth and beauty together; you will never find them apart. — F. M. Cornford)
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To: betty boop; James C. Bennett
I think you are trying to apply "human rules" to God"

Everything people say about God (forgives, loves, cares, wants, regrets, is jealous, etc.) is applying "human rules" to God. Who decides when these rules don't apply?

807 posted on 01/23/2011 11:19:45 AM PST by kosta50 ("Spirit of Spirit...give me over to immortal birth so that I may be born again" -- Mithral prayer)
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To: betty boop; Alamo-Girl
Here is an interesting 'thought experiment':
We are all now aware of the seeming paradox of quantum non-locality, shown through Bell's theorem and experimentally via the separation of entwined particles which transmit information to each other instantaneously regardless of separation distance. Consider the entire universe to be the bubble of spacetime and all that is, except The Creator of the universe, to be inside the bubble of spacetime. This 'arrangement' of 'all' then becomes the expression of 'all-locality' to one outside of the bubble, which is our understanding of God The Creator.

Yes, God has chosen to step inside the bubble as The Word made flesh Who dwelt among us. And yes, even spirits will have some where/when 'arrangement' since they are also created 'things'. So the seeming paradox becomes, God is non-local because He exists outside the bubble of spacetime which He created, but God is also 'all-local' as His Spirit sustains the extremely delicate balance of it all, and as He has chosen to take flesh and dwell among us.

[Shhhh, whatever you do, don't show this to certain geniuses wishing to diminish God rather than exalt God.]

809 posted on 01/23/2011 11:37:42 AM PST by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: betty boop
But because this is the way things work for humans "in time," we cannot say that this "model" pertains to God, Who is not in time.

Precisely so.

Time is part of the creation, not a property of - or restriction on - the Creator of it.

God is not thingly. And man is not the measure of God.

Thank you so much for sharing your insights, dearest sister in Christ!

828 posted on 01/23/2011 9:27:28 PM PST by Alamo-Girl
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