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To: James C. Bennett

Well, you’re almost correct. Without time, events cannot occur. But as a Christian I would reply that The Creator created dimesnions time and space and infused His creation with energy/impetus. God created the dimesnions with information, THEN utilized the results of these most primal elements to build the universe in which we have emerged. The Christian cenceptualization of God is first greater than the creation, thus not within the limits of time and space. THEN, later (a temporal meaning) took flesh and dwelt among us in time and space without diminishing His Godness existing outside of Time and Space. You define god as you see fit, I’m merely giving you a picture of the way Christians define God.


725 posted on 01/22/2011 10:29:16 AM PST by MHGinTN (Some, believing they can't be deceived, it's nigh impossible to convince them when they're deceived.)
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To: MHGinTN; James C. Bennett
Without time, events cannot occur. But as a Christian I would reply that The Creator created dimesnions time and space and infused His creation with energy/impetus

But the very act of creating time in order for change to take place required change on the part of the (supposedly) unchanging God, that is—before time existed!.

The other problem is that by becoming flesh (a temporal event) God is no longer the same as he was eternally, but has eternally changed. If he has changed he is not timeless.

Besides, the Old Testament tells us that God was active in the temporal world before he became flesh.

728 posted on 01/22/2011 10:43:40 AM PST by kosta50 ("Spirit of Spirit...give me over to immortal birth so that I may be born again" -- Mithral prayer)
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To: MHGinTN; kosta50
Without time, events cannot occur.

Yes.

But as a Christian I would reply that The Creator created dimensions time and space and infused His creation with energy/impetus. God created the dimensions with information, THEN utilized the results of these most primal elements to build the universe in which we have emerged. The Christian cenceptualization of God is first greater than the creation, thus not within the limits of time and space. THEN, later (a temporal meaning) took flesh and dwelt among us in time and space without diminishing His Godness existing outside of Time and Space. You define god as you see fit, I’m merely giving you a picture of the way Christians define God.

I understand your view, but this can only be possible if you allow the violation of the rule you mentioned at the beginning. That is, a creator cannot create without changing. In other words, a creator has passed through the stage of non-creating to the stage of creating. Such a transition cannot be possible without the creator being under the influence of time. That is, to allow a change in the prevailing situation, the creator cannot be outside of time. Thus the creator "creating time" is a meaningless statement.

This is why I had mentioned:

The moment something changes what it was doing (or not doing) is the moment it ceases being changeless, and therefore ceases being timeless. The moment of creation is such a moment. For the created and the creator.

The paradox thus remains unresolved.

729 posted on 01/22/2011 10:45:13 AM PST by James C. Bennett (An Australian.)
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