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To: kosta50; James C. Bennett
[Dawkins] “never states with absolute certainty that God doesn't exist

No scientist ever states anything with “absolute certainty” (purportedly). Yet, in this instance Dawkins seems quite unequivocal:
“The question of whether there exists a supernatural creator, a God, is one of the most important that we have to answer. I think that it is a scientific question. My answer is no.”
Yet, the above is the only Dawkins quote I cited to which you do not address, choosing instead to apply his response “no” (to the question of whether there exists a supernatural creator, a God) to an entirely different proposition in a different setting and from a different time.
You may twist and turn at your pleasure. Dawkins states that the “question” of whether there exists a supernatural creator is “scientific” and that his answer is “no.” He does not qualify his response as his “opinion.” He makes his statement as an unqualified assertion, knowing full well it enjoys the notoriety of his reputation as an evolutionary biologist and author (for whatever that is worth).

[Christ] “was sent to no one else except the sheep to the lost house of Israel. He was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.

So, according to the gospel of kosta, the “but” in the KJV passage is to be read as “except,” rather than any of the other terms you’ve been slinging around. Very well, then.
Drawn out of context, this passage at a glance would indeed seem to say that Christ was sent only to the “lost sheep” of Israel. yet this reading arouses more questions than answers. Why, then, did Christ depart to Sidon and Tyre, well outside of Israel? Why was He seen so often teaching and speaking in the company of publicans and other persons of lowly status? Why did Christ not send away the woman of Canaan (said by Mark to be a Greek and a Syrophenician), choosing instead to engage her in a conversation philosophic? A conversation to which the woman apparently gave sufficient reply to move Christ to accede to her plea.

An answer may be found in Mark 7:27 where Christ’s response to the Woman of Canaan is given somewhat more fulsomely: “Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the Children’s bread, and to cast it unto the dogs.”
Should you find this passage unpalatable, perhaps you can dismiss it as the work of corrupt, conniving bishops. Therefore, tell us learned master, what is your translation of the same passage in the Greek Orthodox Church NT; ὁ δὲ Ἰησοῦς εἶπεν αὐτῇ· Ἄφες πρῶτον χορτασθῆναι τὰ τέκνα· οὐ γάρ ἐστι καλὸν λαβεῖν τὸν ἄρτον τῶν τέκνων καὶ τοῖς κυναρίοις βαλεῖν?
What of the other Greek testaments? The Tischendorf 8th Ed. with Diacritics? Or, the Greek NT: Stephanus Textus Receptus (1550, with accents)? The Greek NT: Westcott/Hort with Diacritics? The Greek NT: Byzantine/Majority Text (2000)? (How many Greek NT texts are there, anyway?) Are they all the product of conniving priests? Or, at least, incompetent boobs?

1,699 posted on 04/20/2011 11:55:50 AM PDT by YHAOS (you betcha!)
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To: YHAOS; James C. Bennett
You may twist and turn at your pleasure. Dawkins states that the “question” of whether there exists a supernatural creator is “scientific” and that his answer is “no.”

The question directed at Dawkins was ""if one truly understands science, is God then a delusion." To which Dawkins answered with a negative.

He said the question whether God exists (or doesn't exist) is one of the most important questions that we have to answer. Then —referring to the question asked—he said it was a scientific question and his answer was no (i.e. that by mere understanding of science one cannot say than God is a delusion).

Dawkins has a peculiar, somewhat convoluted, style of speaking and writing, particularly the former. Taken out of context, it is easy to say that he used science to deny God, but anyone familiar with his work would tell you that he says exactly the opposite in his books.

1,700 posted on 04/20/2011 9:57:35 PM PDT by kosta50
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To: YHAOS; James C. Bennett
So, according to the gospel of kosta, the “but” in the KJV passage is to be read as “except,” rather than any of the other terms you’ve been slinging around.

Hardly according to the gospel of kosta. Koine Greek phrase ei me literally means if not, and is routinely translated as except. In fact, if you look up the definition of the word but, as a conjunction it means if not, except. As a preposition it means except, as an adverb it means only.

Drawn out of context, this passage at a glance would indeed seem to say that Christ was sent only to the “lost sheep” of Israel. yet this reading arouses more questions than answers. Why, then, did Christ depart to Sidon and Tyre, well outside of Israel?  

Matthew 10:5-6 clearly defines what "lost sheep of the house of Israel means:

5Do not go in the way of the Gentiles, and do not enter any city of the Samaritans; 6but rather go to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."

So, whatever he was doing in Tyre and Sidon was not part of his mission to the lost sheep of the house of Israel. 

Why was He seen so often teaching and speaking in the company of publicans and other persons of lowly status?

Low status is not the same as being a non-Jew (a Gentile) or a Samaritan (a Jewish apostate). Publicans were simply despised but they were also Jews, and probably counted into the "lost sheep" more than others.

Why did Christ not send away the woman of Canaan (said by Mark to be a Greek and a Syrophenician), choosing instead to engage her in a conversation philosophic?

He told her that he was only sent for the lost sheep of the house of Israel. But she was persistent.

A conversation to which the woman apparently gave sufficient reply to move Christ to accede to her plea.

Apparently because she was willing to accept her "canine status" and get some crumbs.

An answer may be found in Mark 7:27

Mark's account is significantly different form Matthew's. First Matthew is supposed to be an eyewitness, and Mark is not. Second, the woman is described not "Greek" but as Gentile, of Syrophoenician background. In other words, of Semitic origin (Greeks are not Semites). Third, his answer regarding the children being filled first is odd considering the problem the woman presented to him.

All she asked for was for Jesus to heal her daughter. And when he made the reference to dogs eating the children's' crumbs, and she apparently accepted her "canine status", he healed her daughter. Mark makes no mention of him praising her "faith." Nor does she call Jesus the Son of David, as in Matthew.

Now, Matthew's account is also problematic as it raises the question of his familiarity with the  geography of the place. (Now don't forget, he is supposedly writing "under inspiration" and therefore inerrant).

In verse 7:31 Mark states

31Again He went out from the region of Tyre, and came through Sidon to the Sea of Galilee, within the region of Decapolis.

This is strange, just looking at the map of Tyre and Sidon and the routes available at that time.  If he was in Tyre, then going to Sidon to get to Galilee was like traveling from Atlanta, Ga, to Richmond, Va, to get to Florida! Besides, Decapolis is way to the East of Galilee!

So, why should I take either of the two accounts as "factual" given that they essentially differ a great deal and seem to me more as hearsay legendary tale versions then eyewitness accounts?

Therefore, tell us learned master, what is your translation of the same passage in the Greek Orthodox Church NT 

It reads that children should be staffed first, and that one shouldn't throw their food to the dogs.

What of the other Greek testaments? The Tischendorf 8th Ed. with Diacritics? Or, the Greek NT: Stephanus Textus Receptus (1550, with accents)? The Greek NT: Westcott/Hort with Diacritics? The Greek NT: Byzantine/Majority Text (2000)?

The other Greek Testaments are copies of the fifth century AD Codex Alexandrinus (CA), the official Greek Orthodox Church Bible. It differs from the earliest surviving versions (4th century) in many ways (otherwise known as variants). Textus Receptus in particular was a bad copy of CA, based on some late 14th century manuscripts, with some parts actually missing. They were "filled in" with Vulgate verses badly retro translated into Greek!

The Majority Text consists of a large number of manually copied manuscripts, which represent the majorly of extant Greek texts. That doesn't mean they are free of errors or contradictions or internally consistent. There are also Syrian manuscripts, copies from Greek, which complicate the picture a bit more. 

How many Greek NT texts are there, anyway?) Are they all the product of conniving priests? Or, at least, incompetent boobs?

Thousands. Some have intentionally altered passages or even added verses such as 1 Tim 3:16, while others have merely unintentional copyist errors.

1,701 posted on 04/20/2011 11:35:31 PM PDT by kosta50
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