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To: D-fendr; James C. Bennett
I don't think I'm understanding the question, because all I have is: something that exists that is eternal, unchanging and uncaused.

Then how does that which is unchanging, eternal and uncaused "create" without becoming changed and temporal? And what caused it to create? The very act of creation (which requires a deliberate will) makes the creator subject to a cause (will).

1,362 posted on 02/12/2011 8:01:13 AM PST by kosta50 ("Spirit of Spirit....give me over to immortal birth so that I may be born again" -- pagan prayer)
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To: kosta50
Then how does that which is unchanging, eternal and uncaused "create" without becoming changed and temporal?

I used the laws of physics as an example. We're talking about something that is not in the temporal, finite, changing world. Our usual concepts are not likely to apply.

The very act of creation (which requires a deliberate will) makes the creator subject to a cause (will).

I think that's anthropomorphic and if you have a cause for the first cause, it's no longer the first cause, and the problem of why anything exists remains.

And I don't agree that the fact that creation exists requires the first cause to be caused. Still don't see the logical argument there.

1,372 posted on 02/12/2011 8:32:26 AM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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