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To: TXnMA; MarkBsnr; Alamo-Girl; xzins; spirited irish; YHAOS; MHGinTN; James C. Bennett; metmom
But, as I understand it, bb is not confining her discussion to the purely physical...

Your understanding is totally correct TXnMA! I'm not speaking merely of the physical. There are all kinds of "phenomenal things" in the world that are not "physical." Spirited irish gave some great examples here.

And certainly I am not denying the Second Law of Thermodynamics, as MarkBsnr seems to be suggesting!

I'd only wish to point out that the Hungarian theoretical biologist Ervin Bauer has noticed something very interesting about life forms of all descriptions: While living, they appear to try to maintain maximal distance from entropy. Death occurs when they can no longer do that.

So, the vitally interesting question, "What is Life?"

It seems to me Life itself is not "physical," though it implements organic physicality, if I might put it that way.

It ain't something science is ever going to isolate by means of its own methods.

Which only says to me that the methods and techniques of science, as superb as they are, do not reach to all the important questions of human and cosmic existence.

[What political battle are you fighting now, dear brother in Christ? I wish you had time to stay, too! :^)]

Thank you ever so much for writing, dear TXnMA!

3,371 posted on 02/10/2011 7:22:49 AM PST by betty boop (Seek truth and beauty together; you will never find them apart. — F. M. Cornford)
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To: betty boop; TXnMA; MarkBsnr; spirited irish
Your understanding is totally correct TXnMA! I'm not speaking merely of the physical. There are all kinds of "phenomenal things" in the world that are not "physical."

Man, for instance, is more than the sum of his physical parts.

Since we are talking about entropy, I'll use Information Theory and Molecular Biology as an example.

In Shannon's mathematical theory of communications (the foundation theory of the field of mathematics known as information theory) - information is the reduction of uncertainty (Shannon entropy) in the receiver or molecular machine as it moves from a before state to an after state.

Further, the thermodynamic entropy tab is paid (increased) by heat dissipating into the local environment when the Shannon entropy is decreased.

Perfect balance.

Thank you so very much for sharing your insights, dearest sister in Christ!

3,373 posted on 02/11/2011 7:23:06 AM PST by Alamo-Girl
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