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Faith is belief, not knowledge. Even while arguing with me, you post on faith. Paul writes extensively on faith, belief, hope. If you know something, there is no hope, there is surety. You are using the term 'know' here to indicate fervent belief. Okay, be that as it may. When we debate, I will not accept that.

It’s a pity that you evidently have already accepted the existence of a wall between “belief” and “knowledge.”

Not everyone gets a “Road to Damascus” experience

And as he journeyed, he came near Damascus: and suddenly there shined round about him a light from heaven: And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him, Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me? – Acts 9:3-4

or receives physical evidence

Then saith he to Thomas, Reach hither thy finger, and behold my hands; and reach hither thy hand, and thrust [it] into my side: and be not faithless, but believing. – John 20:27

but every Christian receives from God Himself the Spiritual knowledge of Who Christ IS. And that Spiritual knowledge comes neither by sensory perception nor reasoning.

The knowledge of Who Christ IS comes directly from God. It is a Spiritual revelation.

He saith unto them, But whom say ye that I am? And Simon Peter answered and said, Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God. And Jesus answered and said unto him, Blessed art thou, Simon Barjona: for flesh and blood hath not revealed [it] unto thee, but my Father which is in heaven. And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. - Matthew 16:15-18

Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and [that] no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. –I Corinthians 12:3

And we Christians receive Spiritual discernment in our walk. Spiritual discernment is neither sensory perception nor reasoning.

Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought: But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory: Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.

But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.

But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.

For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God. Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.

Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.

But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man. For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ. - I Cor 2:6-16

Without Spiritual discernment, the Scriptures are dead letters, no different than any other ancient manuscript.

With Spiritual discernment, the Scriptures come alive within us.

For the word of God [is] quick, and powerful, and sharper than any twoedged sword, piercing even to the dividing asunder of soul and spirit, and of the joints and marrow, and [is] a discerner of the thoughts and intents of the heart. - Hebrews 4:12

It is the spirit that quickeneth; the flesh profiteth nothing: the words that I speak unto you, [they] are spirit, and [they] are life. - John 6:63

So you see, not only is Spiritual revelation/discernment knowledge – it is the most certain knowledge of all for me, far above sensory perception and reasoning.

If all of my reasoning and sensory perception is telling me to run but God is telling me to stay, I will stay.

For I am persuaded, that neither death, nor life, nor angels, nor principalities, nor powers, nor things present, nor things to come, Nor height, nor depth, nor any other creature, shall be able to separate us from the love of God, which is in Christ Jesus our Lord. – Romans 8:38-39

So obviously we have no common ground between us to discuss this further. It’s been interesting, though, and a great opportunity to testify. Thank you!

God’s Name is I AM

snip: Faith is belief, not knowledge. Even while arguing with me, you post on faith. Paul writes extensively on faith, belief, hope. If you know something, there is no hope, there is surety. You are using the term ‘know’ here to indicate fervent belief. Okay, be that as it may. When we debate, I will not accept that

Spirited: The author of the above claim is obviously confused, for he “believes by faith” that faith and knowledge are two different things entirely. So just what are faith and knowledge and do they impact each other and if so how? Definitions are in order:

1. Faith: “Belief; the assent of the mind to the truth (or proposition) advanced by another, resting on his authority or veracity, without other evidence....”

2. Knowledge: A clear and certain perception of that which exists, or of truth and fact’ the perception of the connection and agreement, or disagreement and repugnancy of our ideas; Acquaintance with any fact; Learning, illumination of the mind...(American Dictionary of the English Language, Noah Webster, 1828)

It is by observation (ie., eyesight) that we know (our spiritual minds are illumined) that the sun rises in the morning and sets in the evening. However, we cannot know that the sun will —ALWAYS-— rise in the morning and —ALWAYS-— set in the evening anymore than we can know for sure that when we go to sleep at night that we will wake up in the morning. We cannot possibly know for certain because we cannot foresee what the future holds let alone what the morrow will bring. Thus we must believe by faith both that the sun will rise and set and that we will wake up in the morning.

Truths, propositions, facts, ideas, beliefs, dreams, memories, theories, concepts, etc. are not elements that can be “sensed” (seen, measured, tasted, weighed, etc). They do not ooze from the brain as bile from the liver. We do not “sense” trees because they emit “tree atoms” that implant themselves on our eyes and from there to our brain as Atomists believed. No, all of these cognitions are of the unseen dimension...the spiritual dimension.

MarkB: “You are using the term ‘know’ here to indicate fervent belief. Okay, be that as it may. When we debate, I will not accept that”

In other words, the spiritual mind of MarkB has assented to the “metaphysical” proposition that knowledge is only knowledge if it is “sensed.” This “metaphysical” proposition was advanced on the authority of others (Atomists/scientistic materialists) and MarkB accepts this authoritative “metaphysical” proposition “without other evidence” because he has been assured that this “belief” is scientific. In sum, MarkB accepts by faith that he can only know what is “sensed.”

This is faith...belief, the very sin MarkB accuses Alamo-Girl, betty boop and others of.

It’s a pity that you evidently have already accepted the existence of a wall between “belief” and “knowledge.”

Since they are different things, their names and descriptions ought to be different.

Not everyone gets a “Road to Damascus” experience

I believe that God sends us what we need to believe.

but every Christian receives from God Himself the Spiritual knowledge of Who Christ IS. And that Spiritual knowledge comes neither by sensory perception nor reasoning.

There are Buddhists and Muslims who claim the same. There are Jewish mystics who claim the same. There are the Navajo on peyote in medicine tents who claim the same. I ask again, how do you know? What makes your Gnosticism correct and their Gnosticism incorrect?

So obviously we have no common ground between us to discuss this further. It’s been interesting, though, and a great opportunity to testify. Thank you!

Probably correct. Thank you for being gracious. I would just close out here by saying that I have knowledge in engineering and manufacturing, and belief in God.