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To: John Leland 1789
The word “Apostasy” usually means abandonment of truth, but then the RCC considers many things to be “apostasy” that others of us Christians do not.

Can. 751 Heresy is the obstinate denial or obstinate doubt after the reception of baptism of some truth which is to be believed by divine and Catholic faith; apostasy is the total repudiation of the Christian faith; schism is the refusal of submission to the Supreme Pontiff or of communion with the members of the Church subject to him.

Nobody should be using a definition other than the above for apostasy.

So, my question is, do the documents these people are signing state they they are totally rejecting Christianity, or do they simply no longer want to be associated with the RCC?

Well, another FReeper posted a couple of items yesterday on the subject. Msgr Pope cited a young man holding a document entitled Acte D’Apostasie A qui de droit. (Act of Renunciation (Apostasy) from the faith) It says apostasy, not schism.

There is a procedure called Actus formalis defectionis ab Ecclesia catholica (act of formal defection from the Catholic Church). That is probably what you are thinking of (the procedures are here). I would think that if a person simply wanted to defect, he would defect, rather than sign something totally repudiating Christianity.

In your Independent Fundamental Baptist Church, you have a couple of ex-Catholics, I'm sure. I'm confident that, if they really wanted to bother, they would have no problem going through the procedure to "defect" from the Catholic Church, but do you think that they would sign something that would even remotely imply that they were repudiating Christ?

Europe is hugely secular. Has been for decades and is worse and worse as times go on. Not just the Catholic areas, but the Protestant areas as well (at least the traditional Protestant sects, not sure what kind of inroads that the charismatics, JWs, etc. have made).

So this news, although sad, is hardly surprising...at least to me. It's a totally different climate than here.

18 posted on 01/12/2011 4:06:54 PM PST by markomalley (Extra Ecclesiam nulla salus)
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To: markomalley
"Nobody should be using a definition other than the above for apostasy."

Thank you for your very good reply. You have clarified a RCC definition, and you are most likely correct that given the European context, those people are surely renouncing Christianity in its entirety.

My own father repudiated any association with the RCC in 1974, having undergone a water ceremony (we utterly deny that such is Christian baptism) when an infant. He was born again in 1974 by faith in Jesus Christ as his personal Savior.

He didn't bother with filing anything, but took much delight in witnessing to Catholic priests when they came to visit, and wrote many letters of testimony of his genuine conversion to Christ in 1974 to the area Catholic priests.

We don't care, really, what the Vatican would say about who should be using what definition, however. We don't allow Roman Catholicism to determine either history or etymology.

Further, it is interesting that the article begins with illustration from some old Camp Meeting songs originating in Appalachian camp meetings a hundred or more years ago. These are songs I am sure would never be heard sung in a Roman Catholic church. These are great songs of Bible-believing (yes, sola scriptura) Christians.

19 posted on 01/12/2011 4:33:14 PM PST by John Leland 1789 (Grateful.)
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