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To: teppe
consequently, if God and Christ were co-equal as per the Nicene Creed .... then Jesus Christ could not be described as the “Christ” since there would have been no reason for him to annoint himself.

There's a cult group headquartered near where I live which rejects the Trinity also, and they make exactly the same error you make here in their attempt to refute Trinitarianism.

You're confusing Trinitarianism with the heresy of Monarchialism. Monarchialism says that the Son is the Father is the Son, which would mean that Jesus anointed himself. (And prays to himself, etc.)

Trinitarianism says that the Son and the Father and the Holy Spirit are distinct persons, but the one divine substance, and therefore one God, not three. There is nothing contradictory or even very hard to understand about that. A person is an identity, a substance is a particular instance of a "what". A rock is a substance, but not a person. Humans and Angels are each one substance associated with one person. God is one divine Substance in which three Persons subsist.

Mormonism is utterly wrong when it says that the Father and the Son are two "gods". You know how I know that? The Dead Sea scrolls contained a scroll of the book of Isaiah that matches the Hebrew text we have almost to the letter. (That is, there are no "plain and precious parts" missing.) The scrolls were hidden in AD 70 and not found until 1948 (contrary to what Glenn Beck said); no "priestcraft" was able to corrupt them, pace Joseph Smith.

Isaiah says in about 6 different places between chapters 43 and 45 that there is only ONE god. Not two, not three, not "as many gods as there are grains of sand on a seashore," no observant Mormon males becoming gods themselves, nothing like that. One True God. Period. Full stop.

92 posted on 01/09/2011 9:42:39 AM PST by Campion
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To: Campion; teppe

**There’s a cult group headquartered near where I live which rejects the Trinity also, and they make exactly the same error you make here in their attempt to refute Trinitarianism.**

Throwing the term ‘cult group’ around is something to not take lightly, so you should also solidify your claim with a name of said group.

Do I deny the trinity? It’s not hard when neither the LORD, nor even the apostles ever taught anything like the trinitarian ‘Creeds’.

A brief example of the confusion those ‘creeds’ display is shown in the following numbered lines from a posting of the so-called ‘Athanasian Creed’:
**10. The Father is eternal: the Son eternal: the Holy Spirit eternal.
22. The Son is of the Father alone: not made; nor created; but begotten.**

Eternal=begotten?? (gonna need a rubber dictionary to make those mean the same thing)

The following statement is contradictory to the verse which follows it.
**25. And in this Trinity none is before or after another: none is greater or less than another.**

“..I go unto the Father: for my Father is greater than I.” John 14:28

And this:
**12. As also there are not three uncreated: nor three immeasurable: but one uncreated, and one immeasurable.**

??
So there are TWO that ARE created, and TWO that ARE measurable?? (my head hurts now)

More confusion:
**13. So likewise the Father is almighty: the Son almighty: and the Holy Spirit almighty.**

If one is almighty, there is no need for the others. If one needs the others, that one is not almighty.

And these next ones........?????????????

17. So the Father is Lord: the Son Lord: and the Holy Spirit Lord.
18. And yet not three Lords; but one Lord.
19. For like as we are compelled by the Christian verity to acknowledge every Person by himself to be God and Lord:
20. So are we forbidden by the catholic religion to say, there are three Gods, or three Lords.

?????????
Tell me, now who is it that is the author of confusion?

And how does a ‘trinitarian’ explain this: “But of that day and hour knoweth....my Father only” (the ‘2nd and 3rd persons of God’ don’t know??)

Shifting gears:
Does sheer numbers make a doctrine true; as in millions of people and centuries of ‘tradition’?
Of all the world, only Noah’s family was saved in the flood. A tiny fraction of the population. Jesus Christ declared that the way is strait and narrow, and few there be that find it.

I ask these two questions:

What divine powerful attribute did the Son give to the Father, if any?

If the Holy Ghost is a ‘separate and distinct person of God’, what divine powerful attribute can it give to the Father that the Father doesn’t already have?

My answer to both is that the Father is the source of all things divine (my previous post covers this fact).


103 posted on 01/09/2011 11:43:03 AM PST by Zuriel (Acts 2:38,39....nearly 2,000 years and still working today!)
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