God was behind Big Bang, universe no accident: Pope Benedict

Yahoo News ^ | 01/06/2011 | Philip Pullella

[rahbert]

sez you. since you weren’t there 13.7B yrs ago, you can’t be sure what G*d did.

[allmendream]

“What is the difference between the concept of God creating the universe and the concept of Intelligent Design?”

“Intelligent Design” is a very specific formulation that goes something like this.... the universe is very old, and living species are descended via common descent, but evolution is not sufficient to explain the changes necessary, so God has to directly intervene at times.

It is analogous to saying that - Yes, gravity is responsible for the shape of the universe, but it is not sufficient to explain it, so God has to directly intervene at times to hold everything together and keep everything in orbit.

It posits a not very intelligent designer, whose tool to change living species, natural selection of genetic variation, is not sufficient to the task assigned it - necessitating direct intervention.

[LiteKeeper]

Uh, wrong! God created the heavens and the earth, but He did not use the Big Bang!

[Heartlander]

Darwin showed that material causes are a sufficient explanation not only for physical phenomena, as Descartes and Newton had shown, but also for biological phenomena with all their seeming evidence of design and purpose. By coupling undirected, purposeless variation to the blind, uncaring process of natural selection, Darwin made theological or spiritual explanations of the life processes superfluous. Together with Marx's materialistic theory of history and society and Freud's attribution of human behavior to influences over which we have little control, Darwin's theory of evolution was a crucial plank in the platform of mechanism and materialism…
-Douglas Futuyma's Evolutionary Biology (1998, 3rd Ed., Sinauer Associates), p. 5

[OldEagle]

I never liked the big bang theory where one thing ran into another thing and we had creation. Who made the things????

[LiteKeeper]

Exactly! The Big bang assumes at least two things: Some material thing has always existed, and that, contrary to the laws of inertia, at some point it "Banged". Additionally, it assumes the the incredible order in the cosmos, and all of the information that guides its structure came into existence as a result of an explosion. And, oh by the way, where did our personalities come from.

Even more importantly, secular scientists now are refuting the Big Bang theory...too many anomalies!

[cornelis]

behind the big bang . . . why didn’t I think of that?

[Robert A Cook PE]

Reference. Later.

[HerrBlucher]

Point taken, but it doesn’t solve the paradox, that is, the Pope is apparently denying God’s purposeful creation of the Universe and Man, in favor of what? Christianity cannot hold up unless there is a supernatural Personal God, separate from Creation, that purposely created the Universe and then Man in His image.

I am just trying to figure out exactly what the Pope believes. We know he is not an Atheist, and apparently we know he does not believe in Intelligent Design, and from what I understand, he certainly does not believe in Biblical literalist Creationism. What else is left?

[presently no screen name]

you can’t be sure what G*d did.

By HIS WORD I do. Either you believe God or man.

[allmendream]

Not in the slightest.

This is an AFFIRMATION of God's purposeful creation of the Universe and man. Everything existed in the mind of God before it came into physical being. The fact that I am the product of a mechanistically random shuffling of my grandparents chromosomes does not mean that God did not know me and know what I would be.

What else is left is what I and many others believe. That God brought the world into being, and that the stars being created right now through gravity and nuclear fusion are just as much created by God as our own, and the data suggests they were formed through the same mechanism.

A literal interpretation however would suggest that the Sun was created subsequent to the Earth during the “morning and evening” of the fourth “day” - all mornings evenings and days without a Sun - whatever that means in a “literal” sense. And all days to the Lord, which were told are “as to a thousand years” which again I don't think is meant in any mathematical sense.

[Just mythoughts]

According to God Himself, he didn’t create the sun, moon or stars until the 4th day. But He says He created light on the first. Which would make sense only today when we consider the speed of light and the distance of the stars. So the Bible tells us He actually created light first and put it in motion before their sources were created. Otherwise most of our night sky would still be pitch black. Truth is, it’s so far beyond our understanding that to give a guy with a telescope and a calculator the crown that he actually KNOWS what he’s talking about and how it all came to be is beyond absurd. Big Bang? How about Big Suckers?

My KJV Bible says Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. PERIOD

Genesis 1:2 AND the earth *became* without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. (Sure is not talking about Noah's flood.)

And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.

verse 2 describes destruction and upheaval of this earth where in no life survived... no not even the so called fittest the TOE'ers claim that was the birthing pot called primordial hot steaming soup.

Christ and Paul as well as Peter all call Genesis 1:2 the foundation of this world... which 'the foundation' is a verb that means casting down/overthrow. Overthrow of who, well Lucifer of course, when he decided he could do things better, a claim liberals all the time like to say of themselves.

Genesis 1:3 forward reads like a Divine 'clean-up' wherein this earth was restored for 'life' in every form could survive.

There is no hint or clue as to the exact time when Genesis 1:1 took place, could have been billions or millions of years ago.

[HerrBlucher]

How does your scenario apply to Christianity? i.e...God created Man in His own image, Man rebelled and fell from grace of God, God became Man as Christ and was crucified to redeem Man. By choosing to believe in Christ, Man is saved and goes to Heaven and is with God, otherwise he goes to Hell, and is without God.

[John Locke]

I rather think of this issue in terms of Paley's Watchmaker. My watches are man-made, and sometimes need new batteries, resetting, repair, and so on. But a watch made by God would run perfectly forever, not needing any intervention.

There is also chance in the Universe. My children are what they are as a result of random shuffling of chromosomes - but I still love them all. And maybe we are featherless bipeds through variation and natural selection - but God still loves us. And I have no difficulty in believing that he foresaw that his Creation would evolve beings in his own image - that is to say, rational beings capable of moral choice.

[allmendream]

I agree.

[Revolting cat!]

And it banged big not so long ago, 6 thousand and some change years.

[Daniel II]

I’m so glad to hear this, because the quantum fluctuation thing was making me nauseous.

[onedoug]

The Sun is most likely a third generation star. Metals, you know. God knew what He was doing.

[bibletruth]

Allegory...Allegory...Allegory...Either you believe God or man. [For me, I believe GOD]

Everything is allegory with the Roman Catholic church: where it is clearly in Scripture that a literal reading and Biblical interpretation is required: which the Holy Spirit has been given to us Christians in HIS ministry to provide insight and teachings by the LORD GOD in all matters of faith and Bible doctrine rightly divided.

With the Roman Catholic's, God’s Word is not number one; rather it is second only to their man made traditions and notion of works oriented doctrines. It’s clear that the Pope is mislead on evolution concepts...

I know exactly what the Pope believes: it is Theistic evolution: since the 'pope' is not an Atheist, nor does he believe in Intelligent Design; but rather the Biblical literal believer on Creationism is correct as recorded in Genesis 1-2 and Exodus 20:11: For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth... and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.

If any Roman Catholic cared to read the Bible in Exodus 20 in keep the context reference understood, he/she will learn from the LORD GOD that HE used a 24-hour day to create each day, the LORD GOD did not use Theistic evolution, e.g., Big Bang!

While Theistic evolution and creation are similar in concept; where they differ is precisely where Theistic evolution fails to accept the 24-hour Biblical day that the LORD GOD clearly communicated to us in Genesis and Exodus in regards to it as ONLY six days; not six million trillion days...etc...

God spoke the world into existence in only SIX literal days: Genesis 1-2 and Exodus 20 are absolute proofs. But Supernatural Creationism is something that ‘man’ can’t wrap their heads, resulting in contemplating only what ‘they think’ occurred.

Man will always seek to utilize their human senses to try to understand God; but man's senses cannot understand the Supernatural Creation that the LORD GOD utilized in HIS creative acts in Genesis, so as a result, Roman Catholics agree with whatever scientist come up with that makes ‘sense’ to them. The blind scientist leading the blind religious system.

Either you believe what man 'thinks' or what the LORD GOD created!

[bibletruth]

Amen...My KJV Bible also says in Genesis 1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. PERIOD

I believe the LORD GOD far above man's thoughts: for in Isaiah 55:8-9 For my thoughts are NOT your thoughts, neither are your ways my ways, saith the LORD. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are my ways higher than your ways, and my thoughts [higher] than your thoughts.

And Isaiah 55:10-11 continue: For as the rain cometh down, and the snow from heaven, and returneth not thither, but watereth the earth, and maketh it bring forth and bud, that it may give seed to the sower, and bread to the eater. So shall my word be that goeth forth out of my mouth: it shall not return unto me void, but it shall accomplish that which I please, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto I sent it.

God's word shall not fail. God supernaturally created the heaven and earth in six literal 24-hour days. God word shall not be mocked. God word shall not fail to be true. God work and WORD shall accomplish that which HE pleased, and it shall prosper in the thing whereto HE sent it.