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To: Godzilla
Godzilla Oh we've discussed this on several occasions, however your interpretations are severely 'challenged' regarding who won or lost.

It's so sad to hear a giant lizard bleating... Again.
Chews up drive space as an vehicle of mormon proselytizing.

So, you think I should post this over and over? I'm sure Jim would rather have it all in one place and referenced because he sees how much DB space re-posts use up, links are tiny in comparison, trust me, your a geologist, I'm a computer nerd. For once, just take my word for it.

Lurkers will note - scriptural interpretation is poorly developed among some mormon apologists. In this instance, it is further compounded by a blinding obedience to a dead prophet.

Yawn, really, can you bleat softer...Zzz.

Anyone who cares, Matthew 5:31-32 KJV has Jesus condemning Divorce and calling remarriage of the divorced adultery.

Now, Godzilla, you big prehistoric lizard, post a similar scripture where Jesus condemns polygamy as adultery. I double dog dare you!

(He can'r because Jesus never said it)

Lurkers will note, within the context of divorce, Jesus also clarifies the context of adultery (woops, DU missed that one, didn't he).

I wouldn't say I was "missing" it Bob, um Godzilla.

Here is what Jesus REALLY said

For someone who cares about hard drive space, you sure don't link much...

Jesus stated only ONE condition for divorce - marital infidelity. In Jesus' eyes, divorce under any other condition was invalid an the two were still married. Thus if one or the other marries under this invalid divorce, it becomes adultery.

Yep, so marriage to someone else after divorce is adultery...Divorce for anything other than Infidelity...Adultery, Got it (Already had it...).

What DU apparently fails to recognize is that for the case of the man, now 'married' to TWO women (ie polygamy) is not sanctioned by Jesus but repudiated as adultery.

So in your opinion, Jesus is saying if a man gets a divorce and then remarries is the same as staying married and getting married again...

You do know that a lot of people now days get divorced and remarried who would never think of just staying married and adding a wife, right? (Just checking)

So, they and I disagree with you that there is no difference. I wold say that Jesus is saying, if you can't keep the first wife, you don'r deserve a second one. Hey, i know as long as we are adding to the Bible, maybe we should just say that Jesus thinks... Wait we're not supposed to add to the Bible are we... I just don't see the word polygamy in there, because it's not in there.

BTW, good 'law abiding' prophet smith broke the law when he began mormon polygamy and that violation of the law continued until wilson's revelation.

So, were the Indians Breaking the Law when they had more than one Squaw? if so what law?

The Edmunds–Tucker Act being passed in 1887, was in court being challenged for three years and was not in force until 1890, and was repealed (since it was unconstitutional) in 1978.

Joseph smith died (we believe martyred...) in 1844.

The city of Nauvoo was allowed by it's charter to supersede the laws of the state if it so desired.

Nauvoo had no law against polygamy.

These are facts. There was no "law" for Joseph to break, he died before the Federal law was passed. You could argue that what he did was immoral, but appeals to the Bible have not worked out well for you in the past either.

Joseph was not breaking any law by having a polygamous marriage.

Spin, spin and spin Du. LOL?

Bleat Bleat and Bleat again, Godzilla, it's so embarrassing to watch you fail on this yet again.

Anyone who cares, there's a whole bunch here

Delph
1,003 posted on 01/03/2011 2:55:04 PM PST by DelphiUser ("You can lead a man to knowledge, but you can't make him think")
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To: DelphiUser
Anyone who cares, Matthew 5:31-32 KJV has Jesus condemning Divorce and calling remarriage of the divorced adultery.
Now, Godzilla, you big prehistoric lizard, post a similar scripture where Jesus condemns polygamy as adultery. I double dog dare you!

Now du, it was explained quite clearly with all the other passages I cited in the synoptics. Clearly in Jesus' teaching, divorce is only valid in one condition. If other divorces are invalid (hint - they are still married in the eyes of God) in regards to marriage, then any second wife is an adulterous relationship because there is a pre-existing marriage.

Now try real hard du to apply some common sense. Jesus states if a monogamous marriage is in effect, any additonal marriages are 'adultery'. Not a hard concept to grasp - unless you like to grasp at straws. Thus from ALL the passages - marriage is one man to one woman (and vice versa), any more is adultery.

So in your opinion, Jesus is saying if a man gets a divorce and then remarries is the same as staying married and getting married again...

I know having to actually think can be hard for some. Jesus is saying there is only one valid justification for a divorce (ie breaking the marriage bond - see Mt 19:6). Absent that - in God's eyes they are still married. After all du(h) the definition of adultery is sex outside of the bonds of legal marriage. Polygamy by any other name.

You do know that a lot of people now days get divorced and remarried who would never think of just staying married and adding a wife, right? (Just checking)

The perverted sense of our society today is not God's standard now is it Du.

So, they and I disagree with you that there is no difference. I wold say that Jesus is saying, if you can't keep the first wife, you don'r deserve a second one. Hey, i know as long as we are adding to the Bible, maybe we should just say that Jesus thinks... Wait we're not supposed to add to the Bible are we... I just don't see the word polygamy in there, because it's not in there.

It is sooooo funny to watch you squirm and squiggle to get out of a jam du. What you or they 'believe' external to the scripture doesn't count for squat. But adding to the bible is just what mormons like to do anyway now isn't it.

So, were the Indians Breaking the Law when they had more than one Squaw? if so what law?

If they were under federal jurisdiction at the time - most likely, dependent upon the LAW and treaty with the tribes. But hey, we are not talking about lamanites here du - we are talking about an American citizen and THOSE laws he engraved into mormon doctrine that mormons were REQUIRED to follow the law of the land.

The city of Nauvoo was allowed by it's charter to supersede the laws of the state if it so desired. Nauvoo had no law against polygamy.

That is a myth and a false representation. The charter states quite clearly that no law may be established that violated the state or national consitution. Furthermore, if there WERE no law prohibiting polygamy in Nauvoo, why did smith get his temple undies in such a knot when his polygamy was exposed by the Expositor? Double facepalm on that interpretation Du.

There was no "law" for Joseph to break, he died before the Federal law was passed. You could argue that what he did was immoral, but appeals to the Bible have not worked out well for you in the past either.

Wrong again Du - he was also in voilation of state laws as well. Smith's polygamous marriages occurred in Illinois in the early 1840s. The Illinois Anti-bigamy Law enacted February 12th, 1833 clearly stated that polygamy was illegal. It reads:

"Sec 121. Bigamy consists in the having of two wives or two husbands at one and the same time, knowing that the former husband or wife is still alive. If any person or persons within this State, being married, or who shall hereafter marry, do at any time marry any person or persons, the former husband or wife being alive, the person so offending shall, on conviction thereof, be punished by a fine, not exceeding one thousand dollars, and imprisoned in the penitentiary, not exceeding two years. It shall not be necessary to prove either of the said marriages by the register or certificate thereof, or other record evidence; but the same may be proved by such evidence as is admissible to prove a marriage in other cases, and when such second marriage shall have taken place without this state, cohabitation in this state after such second marriage shall be deemed the commission of the crime of bigamy, and the trial in such case may take place in the county where such cohabitation shall have occurred."
Revised Laws of Illinois, 1833, p.198-99

And John Taylor, the third president of the church, claimed that he believed in keeping all the laws of the United States "except one"--i.e., "The law in relation to polygamy." (Journal of Discourses, vol. 20, page 317)

Getting tired of digging your self in deeper du?

When bring'em young moved the clan to Utah, it was still part of mexican territory - which outlawed polygamy at that time. When it became a US territory, US common laws in 1850 also outlawed polygamy.

DU, even church publications, doctrines and manuals admit that polygamy was illegal.

The Book of Commandments contained the following statement: "Inasmuch as this church of Christ has been reproached with the CRIME of fornication, and polygamy: we declare that we believe, that one man should have one wife; and one woman, but one husband, except in case of death, when either is at liberty to marry again." (Section C1, 251)(see also History of the Church, Vol. 2, p. 247). This section was in every single edition until 1876, when the D & C first included section 132 justifying plural marriage

"The law of the land and the rules of the church do not allow one man to have more than one wife alive at once." (Times and Seasons, vol. 5, p. 715, November 15, 1844.)

You've said you are still 'learning' - now is another time to admit you still have a lot of learning to go du.

1,093 posted on 01/03/2011 4:01:49 PM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
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