Joseph Smith: An Apostle of Jesus Christ

LDS.org ^ | Dennis B. Neuenschwander

[MHGinTN]

See a reference to the duplicity (Mormon leadership wants to have it both ways, as if that avoids the truth that they're making things up as they go) HERE. I didn't ping the Inmans because it is common knowledge to us but hidden from LDS. Sadly, it appears the one to whom I offered the material will not read it.

[reaganaut]

Which Christian religion is the *Right* religion???

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NONE OF THEM. It isn’t about any religion. It is about a RELATIONSHIP with Jesus Christ alone. That is outside any religion at all.

Religon often KEEPS US FROM GOD, not brings us closer, it is rules, rites, and minutia. A relationship with Christ transcends that, but you must believe in Christ, the Christ of the Bible. And Mormons do not. Rather they spit on Christ’s sacrifice on the Cross and I will not stay silent about that - EVER.

You keep mentioning outward appearances. Ever hear ‘don’t judge a book by its cover’? Outward appearances don’t necessarily mean salvation or even Christianity. I know several athiests who are better people than Mormons but that doesn’t mean they are Christians either.

Tara, I have been following your posts for awhile now, and you appear to me to be a ‘seeker’ (CAWW want to weigh in?) but what I also see is that you are using the wrong criteria and focused on fining religion and that concerns me.

Salvation isn’t about a church or denomination, it is only about trusting Christ and His sacrifice for your sins on the Cross to save you and get you back to God. And that is something that Mormonism does not teach and even has taught against.

[Tennessee Nana]

and was it Nephi or Moroni ???

Did the mormon god ever make up its mind ???

[restornu]

I did my home work and I know these taudry thought are untrue but it makes good fodder!

My relationship with the Church started with the Book of Mormon, Bible and the Lord a one on one

I suggest this to all to learn for themselves by the power of the Holy Ghost!

John 14:26

26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

[reaganaut]

Use caps and bold all day long but it will not change the fact that the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints is Christ’s true Church restored to the earth.

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And on what do you base that ‘fact’? Feelings? Because evidence proves the contrary.

[SENTINEL]

Delphi I asked you a simple question which you have not answered.

Which bible do you use, the Joseph Smith Translation, "corrected" and written by the man you claim communed with God himself and founded your church.....Or the King James Version which Brigham Young ordered to be used after he declared the JST "spurious" and a fraud ?

Simple question, JST or KJV ?

ATTENTION LURKERS...WITNESS MORMON SPIN IN ACTION.

[Religion Moderator]

Yes, that was discussed. The “caucus” label was never to be used as “cover” to fire shots at another group of believers.

[reaganaut]

I am correct. I used to be LDS and I know what they mean when they say that and it isn’t what Christians mean. They use different words.

Check out this page, it is by another former member and is accurate description of how the LDS have different definitions (with sources to their writings and scriptures). Research it and research it well, don’t just assume they are Christians because they say so.

Don’t take what they say at face value. I did and ended up making the biggest mistake of my life by joining them. I thank God every day he delivered me from those chains of legalism.

http://www.utlm.org/onlineresources/terminologymain.htm

[Godzilla]

Sadly, it appears the one to whom I offered the material will not read it.

Hands over eyes "lalalalalalalala, not reading, not reading"

[T Minus Four]

DU: CC, tithing is in the Bible. Maybe You should read it before complaining about a Biblical practice...
Just saying

Delph

By golly Delph, it sure is, right there in Leviticus:

One tenth of all your income is Mine, and it is holy unto Me. Lev.27:30

Problem is, Leviticus was not written to us, it was written for the israelites.

Now, if you want to go cherry-picking laws out of Leviticus and following them, that's a pretty good one.

I personally would choose that over the constant slaughtering of animals. My gosh, it must have been a bloodbath. The first 9 or 10 chapters are about animal sacrifices.

And telling my teen-age daughter she had to saty in seclusion every time she had her period. Yikes, that would be a struggle. Hard to finish school too.

Be sure to go over all the food restrictions, the handling of dead bodies, the treatment of skin diseases and discharges.

If you are a man with a skin discharge and you touch the WII remote, it has to be destroyed. Really, it's in there.

[Godzilla]

The “caucus” label was never to be used as “cover” to fire shots at another group of believers.

And for the most part it has worked, as too the 'ecumenical' labels. You do a good job RM keeping things running straight and I appreciate it.

[Syncro]

Could you read the quotes from LDS writings in post #298 and let the forum know if you agree with them or if they are false?

Many of us have been searching for answers to this qurey here for years.

It would be helpful to have a nice clear difinitive statement from a member of the LDS belief system to settle this matter.

Thank you.

[restornu]

Resty, agreeing with DU’s epic whine about JimRob’s post #68: I could not have said it better it has shades of WW11
Resty, I honestly don’t get why JimRob hasn’t banned you yet. You personally insult him and slander him, both to his face and snidely.

You DO understand you are his GUEST, don’t you?

****

As Jesus said...

John 14

30 Hereafter I will not talk much with you: for the prince of this world cometh, and hath nothing in me.

[Paragon Defender]

ooh big capital letters!

Your propaganda is addressed at the links I have provided you repeatedly. It is your choice to hear the truth or not.

[CharlesWayneCT]

Yes, because we have long since chased off the few conservative muslims that might have been reading (and yes, I know that some people insist there can’t be any “conservative muslims”, just as others don’t believe in “conservative atheists”, or “conservative evolutionists”, or “conservative environmentalists”.

It’s just a lot easier to make fun of things than discuss them.

[reaganaut]

Well, start learning what mormonism teaches. It will open your eyes.

Here are some great resources (all carefully sourced)

www.irr.org/mit
www.utlm.org
www.mormonoutreach.org

Listen to what the other exmos on here say, we were once lost but now have been found.

[MHGinTN]

Elsie found that Tanner material to be so educational that he put it into html and posted like the following:

TERMINOLOGY DIFFERENCES

By Sandra Tanner

Introduction

    Whenever an evangelical Christian and a Latter-day Saint engage in a doctrinal discussion they encounter the problem of terminology. LDS leaders use the standard  vocabulary of Christianity but with radically different definitions. A Christian should never take for granted that his/her LDS friend understands common Christian terms in the biblical way.

    Because the Bible has many warnings about false prophets (Matthew 24:11, 24; 2 Corinthians 11:4, 13; 1 John 4:1) and people teaching strange doctrines (2 Peter 2:12; Galatians 1:6-8; Hebrews 13:9), it is essential that we understand what the Bible says on various doctrines.

    The references below will demonstrate that the LDS Church is indeed teaching a different god and a counterfeit gospel, thus offering a false hope.

    The following list of Christian terms will be defined by LDS sources and then by biblical quotes. While this is not a complete list of terminology differences, it will cover the most basic ones. For a more detailed look at terminology differences, see The Counterfeit Gospel of Mormonism.

 

Terms:

1. GODHEAD
2. JESUS CHRIST
3. PREMORTAL LIFE
4. THE FALL
5. VIRGIN BIRTH
6. SIN
7. FORGIVENESS
8. SALVATION BY GRACE
9. REDEEMED
10. GOSPEL
11. BORN AGAIN
12. TRUE CHURCH
13. AUTHORITY - PRIESTHOOD
14. BAPTISM
15. SONS OF GOD
16. ETERNAL LIFE
17. IMMORTALITY
18. HELL
19. HEAVEN
20. KINGDOM OF GOD

---

Eternal Progression Chart

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GODHEAD

LDS: Father & Son are resurrected men with physical bodies. Holy Ghost is a separate man with a spiritual body. Three totally separate Gods. God is married. Other Gods for other worlds. (D&C 130:22; Teachings, pp. 345-346, pp. 370-373; Doctrines of Salvation,v.1, p. 10-12)

BIBLE: God is not a man. (Num. 23:19) He has always been God. (Psa. 90:2; Mal. 3:6; Hab. 1:12; Rom. 1:22-25) Only one God. (Isa. 43:10-11; 44:6; 45:21-22) Father is Spirit and invisible. (John 4:24; 1 Tim. 1:17)

(GODHEAD: click here for complete quotes and references.)

JESUS CHRIST

LDS: Literally our elder brother, born to Heavenly Parents in the premortal life. Jesus, Lucifer and humans are all the same species and are brothers and sisters. (Gospel Principles pp. 11, 17, 18)

BIBLE: Fully God, not a subordinate deity. Eternal. (Isa. 9:6; John 8:58; 1 Tim. 3:16; Heb. 13:8; John 1:1-4, 14; Col. 1:16-17)

(JESUS CHRIST: click here for complete quotes and references.)

PREMORTAL LIFE

LDS: Teach that everyone existed in heaven before born on earth. We have existed eternally. (D&C 93:29; PGP:Bk of Abr 3:21-22; Teachings, pp. 352-354)

BIBLE: Only Christ existed before mortality, not man. (John 8:58; Col. 1:17) Our existence started on earth. (Zec. 12:1; 1 Cor. 15:46)

(PREMORTAL LIFE: click here for complete quotes and references.)

THE FALL

LDS: Fall was a blessing. It brought mortality, ability to have children and physical death. Adam was given conflicting commandments and was supposed to fall. (Doctrines of Salvation Vol. 1, pp. 111-116; Gospel Principles, pp. 31-33; 2 Nephi 2:25; Mormon Doctrine, pp. 268-269)

BIBLE: God intended obedience. Gen. 1:28. God tempts no one. (James 1:13-14). Man is sinful. (Rom. 5:12; 8:5-8; 1 Cor. 2:14)

(THE FALL: click here for complete quotes and references.)

VIRGIN BIRTH

LDS: Believe God, as a resurrected physical man, is literal Father of Jesus—same manner in which men are conceived on earth. Believe Matt. 1:18 is in error. (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 546-547, 742)

BIBLE: Mary was "with child of the Holy Ghost." (Matt. 1:18; Luke 1:30-35)

(VIRGIN BIRTH: click here for complete quotes and references.)

SIN

LDS: Specific acts, not man's basic nature. Must know act is wrong to be a sin. (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 550, 735-736)

BIBLE: We are in spiritual rebellion until conversion. (Eph. 2:3; Rom. 5:6) We do not just commit sins; we are basically sinful. (Matt. 1:21; Jer. 17:9; Luke 5:32)

(SIN: click here for complete quotes and references.)

FORGIVENESS

LDS: Granted at end of process of repentance and reformed behavior (Mormon Doctrine, p. 292-298; Gospel Principles, pp. 75-77, p. 123; Doctrine of Salvation, Vol. 1, p. 133-134)

BIBLE: Complete forgiveness granted the moment we turn to Christ. (Mark 2:5; Col. 2:13-14; Eph. 1:6-7)

(FORGIVENESS: click here for complete quotes and references.)

SALVATION BY GRACE

LDS: Believe Christ's death brought release from grave and universal resurrection. Salvation by grace is universal resurrection. Beyond this, man must earn his place in heaven. Saved by grace after all we can do. (Book of Mormon, 2 Nephi 25:23; Mormon Doctrine pp. 669-671)

BIBLE: Salvation is not limited to universal resurrection but gift of God to those who believe. (Rom. 1:16; Heb. 9:28; Eph. 2:8-9)

(SALVATION BY GRACE: click here for complete quotes and references.)

REDEEMED

LDS: From mortal death only. Not same as Eternal Life. (Doctrine of Salvation, Vol. 2, pp. 10-15)

BIBLE: Redeemed from more than mortal death; redeemed from spiritual death & given Eternal Life. (Rom. 6:23; Eph. 2:1; Gal. 4:4-5)

(REDEEMED: click here for complete quotes and references.)

GOSPEL

LDS: Doctrines and commandments of the LDS Church. True gospel restored by Joseph Smith. (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 331; 334; Doctrine of Salvation, Vol. 1, pp. 156-159)

BIBLE: Good news of Christ’s death and resurrection as atonement for our sins. (1 Cor. 15:1-4; Gal. 1:6-8)

(GOSPEL: click here for complete quotes and references.)

BORN AGAIN

LDS: Baptism into the LDS Church. (Mormon Doctrine, p. 101)

BIBLE: We are spiritually dead until our spiritual birth. (1 Pet. 1:23; 2 Cor. 5:17; John 3:7, 14, 15)

(BORN AGAIN: click here for complete quotes and references.)

TRUE CHURCH

LDS: Only the Mormon Church. The true church was taken from the earth until Joseph Smith restored it. (D&C 1:30; 115:3, 4; Mormon Doctrine, pp. 133, 136)

BIBLE: Not an organization; as born-again Christians we are part of God's Church. (1 Cor. 12:12-14; Matt. 16:18; 18:19-20)

(TRUE CHURCH: click here for complete quotes and references.)

AUTHORITY - PRIESTHOOD

LDS: Believe only LDS have authority to baptize, ordain, etc. Have two-part system of priesthood—Melchizedek and Aaronic. (Doctrines of Salvation, Vol. 3, p. 80-81; D&C 107:1-21)

BIBLE: Christ brought end to Aaronic priesthood and is the only High Priest after the manner of Melchizedek. (Heb. 5:9-10; 7:11-17; 7:24-27; 2 Tim. 2:2)

(AUTHORITY - PRIESTHOOD: click here for complete quotes and references.)

BAPTISM

LDS: Must be performed by LDS priesthood. (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 69-72)

BIBLE: Emphasis is on Believer—not priesthood authority. (Matt. 28:19; Acts 2:37-41; 16:30-34)

(BAPTISM: click here for complete quotes and references.)

SONS OF GOD

LDS: We were all born in heaven, prior to earth, as literal spirit children of God and his wife. (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 589-590)

BIBLE: Spiritually adopted at conversion. (John 1:12; Gal. 3:26)

(SONS OF GOD: click here for complete quotes and references.)

ETERNAL LIFE

LDS: Exaltation in Celestial Kingdom; godhood and ability to bear children in heaven. Must have a temple recommend and be sealed in Mormon temple. (D&C 131:1-4; 132:19-25, 30, 55)

BIBLE: Not limited to certain ones in the top part of heaven. No mention of parenthood or temple marriage but is given to all true believers. (1 John 5:12-13; Luke 20:35-36)

(ETERNAL LIFE: click here for complete quotes and references.)

IMMORTALITY

LDS: Universal gift. The ability to go to heaven and live forever but not same as Eternal Life. Lower level of heaven and unable to bear children. (D&C 14:7; Mormon Doctrine, pp. 237, 376-377, 670)

BIBLE: Makes no distinction between immortality and eternal life. No second class citizens in heaven. (2 Tim. 1:10; John 3:15-16)

(IMMORTALITY: click here for complete quotes and references.)

HELL

LDS: Hell as an institution is eternal—inmates come and go as in jail, but do not spend eternity there. Temporary. After debt is paid they will go to the Telestial Kingdom. (Mormon Doctrine, pp. 349-351)

BIBLE: No mention of people getting out of Hell. (Rev. 21:8; Matt. 13:24-43, 47-50; Luke 16:26)

(HELL: click here for complete quotes and references.)

HEAVEN

LDS: Divided into three kingdoms—Celestial, Terrestrial and Telestial. A place for almost everyone. (D&C 88:16-20; Misuse of 1 Cor. 15:40-41)

BIBLE: Only mentions two conditions—everlasting punishment or eternal life. (Matt. 25:31-46; 2 Thess. 1:7-10)

(HEAVEN: click here for complete quotes and references.)

KINGDOM OF GOD

LDS: Means Celestial Kingdom. Only those in the Celestial Kingdom are in God's presence. Those in the Terrestrial or Telestial Kingdoms are not in the presence of the Father. (D&C 76:50-88; 131:1-4; 132:16-17)

BIBLE: All redeemed will be in God's presence. (Rev. 21:1-3) All believers are part of Kingdom. (Matt. 13:41-43)

(KINGDOM OF GOD: click here for complete quotes and references.)

 

LDS References:

• Book of Mormon
• Doctrine and Covenants
• Pearl of Great Price
• Mormon Doctrine by Bruce R. McConkie, 1979
• Doctrines of Salvation by Joseph Fielding Smith
• Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith by Joseph Fielding Smith
• Gospel Principles, published by LDS Church, 1995

 

 

Go to Terminology References

Go to Online Resources

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[xzins]

You do a good job RM keeping things running straight and I appreciate it.

Absolutely. We have a great Relig Mod...the best.

And I really liked the RMod prior to this one.

[reaganaut]

I have read posts on this thread from some Mormons, saying that they do believe Jesus Christ is the only path to salvation John:14-6

- - - - - -
Ok, but why do you assume they mean the same thing by it as you do? Or as Christians do? Because they don’t.

Mormons believe the LDS church is the ‘way’, the ‘truth’ and the ‘life’ that leads to their own godhood. I can give you sources for all of that.

Jesus tends to be a footnote (and I can link some pages where other LDS/exLDS discuss that openly).

colo, do you have that ‘Jesus is a stepping stone’ post?

[T Minus Four]

I really need to that this year did you see my 2011 motto “Focus on the issues not the group think stink bombs!”

I guess that "Love everyone like Jesus commanded us to do" tagline wasn't working for you, eh?