Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Joseph Smith: a witness of Christ [LDS Open - Merry Smithmas!]
Mormontimes.com ^ | Dec 18, 2010 | R. Scott Lloyd

Posted on 12/20/2010 8:46:50 AM PST by T Minus Four

On Dec. 23, 1805, as much of the world was preparing to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ, another baby boy was born. Like Jesus, this 19th century baby came forth in humble circumstances and in an obscure village.

Though the world didn't know it at the time, the birth of Joseph Smith Jr. would initiate what is arguably the greatest and most far-reaching chain of events in the history of Christianity since the Savior's mortal ministry itself.

That infant would grow up to hold the apostolic office and thus be a special witness of Jesus Christ, the first mortal man on earth with such authority since the deaths of Peter, Paul and other New Testament figures. But Joseph's role would have further significance, he being the man who, under the direction of Jesus Christ, received the keys of the gospel's restoration in latter days and of the prophesied Dispensation of the Fulness of Times. It was a role with transcendent magnitude, fulfilling scriptural prophecy.

Joseph himself would only begin to become aware of its significance himself at age 14, when, in response to a fervent plea for religious guidance, he saw in their glory the Father and the Son.

In subsequent theophanies and other heavenly visitations, the young prophet would receive further divine tutoring.

Visiting Joseph on Sept. 21, 1823, the Book of Mormon prophet Moroni in angelic form quoted a number of biblical passages, among them this verse from Isaiah:

"And there shall come forth a rod out of the stem of Jesse, and a Branch shall grow out of his roots" (Isaiah 11:1).

Some 15 years later, the Prophet would provide a divinely revealed explanation of this verse in the form of questions and responses recorded today as Doctrine and Covenants 113:1-4: "Who is the Stem of Jesse spoken of in the 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th verses of the 11th chapter of Isaiah?

"Verily thus saith the Lord: It is the Christ.

"What is the rod spoken of in the first verse of the 11th chapter of Isaiah, that should come of the Stem of Jesse?

"Behold, thus saith the Lord: It is a servant in the hands of Christ, who is partly a descendant of Jesse as well as of Ephraim, or of the house of Joseph, on whom there is laid much power."

Commented Elder Bruce R. McConkie of the Quorum of the Twelve, "Are we amiss in saying that the prophet here mentioned is Joseph Smith, to whom the priesthood came, who received the keys of the kingdom, and who raised the ensign for the gathering of the Lord's people in our dispensation?"

Alexander W. Baugh, professor of Church history and doctrine at BYU commented, "On Dec. 9, 1834, Joseph Smith Sr. pronounced a patriarchal blessing on Joseph Smith Jr. wherein he declared that the Prophet was a lineal descendant and birthright heir to the patriarchal fathers Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, but more particularly Joseph of Egypt. Furthermore, Brigham Young declared that Joseph Smith was a descendant of Joseph through Ephraim (Journal of Discourses 2:269).

"Additionally, Doctrine and Covenants 113:6 states that the 'root of Jesse' as spoken of in Isaiah 11:10 is 'a descendant of Jesse, as well as of Joseph, unto whom rightly belongs the priesthood, and the keys of the kingdom for an ensign, and for the gathering of my people in the last days.' Such wording suggests the individual to be none other than Joseph Smith."


TOPICS: General Discusssion; Other non-Christian; Religion & Culture; Theology
KEYWORDS: inman; josephsmith; lds; mormon; utah
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 161-168 next last
To: Imnidiot
In before the PD again!


21 posted on 12/20/2010 9:18:07 AM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: T Minus Four

“I prophecy that he’ll be along soon.”

I prophecy that some will know him for evil and some for good.

I also prophecy that the [P]osted [D]umbed-down links will address everything and answer nothing.

I further prophecy that many mormons will again be embarrassed by this non-defense of the faith they are sincere about - and that they are troubled by the lack of:

...facts
...evidence
...logical argumentation

that could defend mormonism.

ampu, prophet, seer, revelator, council of the very big leaders...


22 posted on 12/20/2010 9:19:09 AM PST by aMorePerfectUnion
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: NEMDF
Not wishing to offend any LDS who might be reading this, but I feel that the article rated a BARF ALERT.

I would agree - sad thing is it was LDS who made these comments to begin with!

23 posted on 12/20/2010 9:20:30 AM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: sr4402
Can you please give his lineage back to Jesse (through David of course).

Duh, his Dad said so, so that should be good enough. From the article:

On Dec. 9, 1834, Joseph Smith Sr. pronounced a patriarchal blessing on Joseph Smith Jr. wherein he declared that the Prophet was a lineal descendant and birthright heir to the patriarchal fathers Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, but more particularly Joseph of Egypt. Furthermore, Brigham Young declared that Joseph Smith was a descendant of Joseph through Ephraim (Journal of Discourses 2:269).

Side note: Their 12-year-old priests, aka every worthy boy, are "spiritually transfused" with the blood of Levi to enable them to hold the priesthood.

24 posted on 12/20/2010 9:21:23 AM PST by T Minus Four (Duh. We were talking about in the old days or not-so-distant old days)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: T Minus Four
Hail to the Prophet and Merry Christmas. Brothers for eternity
25 posted on 12/20/2010 9:24:20 AM PST by 47samurai (The last real conservative)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: T Minus Four

I know that there are a lot of good people that follow the Mormon sect. I can’t really call it a religion but this is just the biggest bunch of balderdash I have ever heard. Comparing Joseph Smith to Jesus Christ. That is just too much.

Christ never wanted multiple wives, Christ never lied, Christ never deceived people, Christ never killed anybody. Other than that I guess he was just like Joseph Smith Jr.


26 posted on 12/20/2010 9:24:53 AM PST by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Georgia Girl 2

You’re right, most LDS people I know (and I live in Utah)are very good, kind, sincere people. My heart aches for them!


27 posted on 12/20/2010 9:27:28 AM PST by T Minus Four (Duh. We were talking about in the old days or not-so-distant old days)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: 47samurai

Notice you of course mention the false prophet BEFORE Christ...


28 posted on 12/20/2010 9:29:38 AM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: T Minus Four
Duh, his Dad said so, so that should be good enough.

Sorry, but I am looking for a legal lineage. Do you have it?

I see that the claim goes back to Abraham. Therefore, I need the begets all the way from Abraham, through Jesse to Joseph Smith Jr. Please provide all the father's names through all the generations.

Surely you have it in the Mormon Archives?

29 posted on 12/20/2010 9:29:44 AM PST by sr4402
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: jjones9853

We all are, according to them.


30 posted on 12/20/2010 9:31:10 AM PST by T Minus Four (Duh. We were talking about in the old days or not-so-distant old days)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 12 | View Replies]

To: All

Oh looky! Another anti-Mormon gang thread!

Nothing new though. Same old non-issues. /yawn


31 posted on 12/20/2010 9:32:37 AM PST by Paragon Defender
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 24 | View Replies]

To: All
Seekers of truth,

If you peruse the Free Republic religion forums you will notice a pattern. There's an anti-Mormon group of people here that spends a great deal of their time attacking the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. They post regurgitated propaganda on an almost daily basis.

They have a misguided obsession. You can witness many different tactics employed that you might find quite interesting. The straw man argument is a big favorite and is frequently preceded by cherry-picking quotes or other material. After the "quotation" the attacker will misrepresent what has been said or what was meant and then attack their own interpretation.Later they will have the audacity to claim they were "only" quoting our own material.  

They will of course insist ad nauseum that they are merely using our sources and are therefore innocent of any deceptive practice. LDS persons have no issue whatsoever having our scriptures or leaders quoted as long as it is presented fairly and accurately. This is rarely (if ever) done.

Another favorite is posting scripture or statements which on their own really present no dilemma. They make something out of nothing while never bringing up a single objection that hasn't been addressed a hundred times before.

You might note a couple of other tactics used to try to antagonize is the use of disrespectful or insulting terms or language and/or pictures. That's a Christlike thing to do right? Yeah I don't think so either. It does speak volumes about them though.

Some of them claim being some sort of special witness to you as being supposedly former Mormons. So someone who is an ex-member of any organization would never have an axe to grind or have reason to try to justify their actions by any means? Perhaps not but perhaps so. The LDS Church gains members from other denominations as well as others faiths all the time. This doesn't make them an expert on anything and you certainly won't hear them attacking their forner Church.

Frequently they cruise the headlines of the day seeking any story that might be twisted into making the Church look bad. Anything will do, just watch the progression of posts following it and see what I mean.

After reading their posts, I invite you to seek the truth about whatever "issue" they seem to be "revealing" or "exposing". I promise that if you do so with honest intent, the "ahah" moments you will have will be many and frequent. You will start to recognize the tactics employed to cleverly twist and attack and will likely chuckle the more you see. In actuality, there's nothing new here. It's all been addressed many times before.

The latest twist in the anti-Mormon propaganda machine is to actually go to the links provided, but then they cherry pick what they want, then quote and straw man attack that. Clever. It almost appears that they are helping you, the seeker of truth out by doing some footwork for you. Not so much. Don't be insulted, look for yourself. It's not the haystack they want you to think.

Here's a few links to get your started from a different viewpoint. I have found that the vast majority of the "issues" brought up can be found and addressed at http://www.fairlds.org/ but here's more:

http://scriptures.lds.org/
http://www.lds.org
http://www.fairlds.org/
http://www.mormonapologetics.org/
http://www.mormonwiki.com/Main_Page
http://www.lightplanet.com/response/index.html
http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDS_Intro.shtml
http://www.answeringantimormons.com/index.htm
http://promormon.blogspot.com/

Now you will likely notice the "you never address or answer our points" posts pop up as usual. All after providing the answers just as you have here.

Sometimes it is claimed that these sites present a needle in a haystack. Far from it. But if you give up before you try you won't know will you? They often state that these sites provide no answer. They just don't want you looking. It is as simple as that.

Will you wear blinders too? Seek truth. Find out for yourself. Want to chat with someone on any topic? A few of these sites provide just that. So do your homework sincere seeker of truth. Listen and read from both "sides". Make up your own mind.

I witness to you of these truths and wish you the best, in the name of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Amen.

 


32 posted on 12/20/2010 9:33:14 AM PST by Paragon Defender
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: sr4402
Sorry, but I am looking for a legal lineage. Do you have it?

How dare you get on this thread and bash Mormons! You have a spirit of contention, you hater! If you would just go to this unofficial LDS website www.fairlds.org and look for yourself you will feel that it is true. Sheesh < /s >

33 posted on 12/20/2010 9:34:43 AM PST by T Minus Four (Duh. We were talking about in the old days or not-so-distant old days)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: All

I’m further validated :-)


34 posted on 12/20/2010 9:35:33 AM PST by T Minus Four (Duh. We were talking about in the old days or not-so-distant old days)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: sr4402; All; T Minus Four; Godzilla; svcw; Georgia Girl 2; laweeks; CodeToad; ejonesie22; ...
SR4402...clarification there...based on your two posts...T Minus Four isn't Mormon...she's merely exposing faulty Mormon interpretation of Isaiah 11:1.

The Rod of Jesse is a physical lineage, just like a family tree. Both Mary's and Joseph's (the stepfather of the Lord Jesus Christ) lineage is found in the Gospels of Matthew and Luke. They are used to prove that Christ fulfills the prophesies as messiah. Since you claim Joseph Smith Jr is of this line, Can you please give his lineage back to Jesse (through David of course). Thanks [SR4402]

Yes, indeed sr4402. How about if every FREEPER between now and Christmas made this same request SR4402 has made. Ask it nicely. But firmly request that:

"Since your fellow Mormons claim Joseph Smith Jr is of this line, can you please give Christ's lineage back to Jesse (through David of course). Thanks."

Now, should the Mormon not know to what you are referencing, simply say:

Well, I put the words "rod," "Joseph" and "Isaiah 11:1" -- the latter in quotations -- and Googled it. Did you know that three of the top 8 hits were from Mormon apologetics Web sites trying to maintain (in effect) that the second verse of the Christmas carol, O Come, O Come Emmanuel belongs NOT to Jesus Christ, but to Joseph Smith????!!!!!.

You don't have to be an "expert" about Mormonism to just ask your...
...Mormon co-workers,
...Your Mormon neighbors,
...Your Mormon family members,
...Your Mormon acquaintances...
...Why the people that Mormon FREEPERS like Paragon Defender seem to respect the most (PD is ALWAYS spamming these threads, sending posters & lurkers to unofficial Lds apologetics Web sites...)
...Other unofficial Lds apologetics Web sites are inserting "Joseph Smith" himself into the Old Testament text of Isaiah 11:1!

(By the way, this kind of thing isn't new...Smith also inserted himself into other passages like Ezekiel 37 and Genesis 50)

35 posted on 12/20/2010 9:36:02 AM PST by Colofornian (Final filtered authority figures of Lds: PR spokesmen & Unofficial Mormon links PD uses)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Paragon Defender
Are you claiming that this article from a Mormon publication is a lie?
36 posted on 12/20/2010 9:36:29 AM PST by ejonesie22 (8/30/10, the day Truth won.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Paragon Defender

The article is from the Official Mormon Times. Is it BS?


37 posted on 12/20/2010 9:41:21 AM PST by T Minus Four (Duh. We were talking about in the old days or not-so-distant old days)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: Paragon Defender
Seekers of truth

Well lookie who finally showed up. Instead of addressing the issue of whether or not smith was prophecied in the bible - as taught by lds apostles and prophets - we get the standard spam which is now becoming a laughing stock in the FR community. Of course, had pd done his homework, he'd find the claims of the article supported in an article by the official lds rag "ensign".

We've presented the 'official' lds view - we are also presenting the opposite view which many lds prefer NOT to look at.


38 posted on 12/20/2010 9:41:53 AM PST by Godzilla (3-7-77)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 32 | View Replies]

To: Paragon Defender
CLICK HERE
39 posted on 12/20/2010 9:45:36 AM PST by T Minus Four (Duh. We were talking about in the old days or not-so-distant old days)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 31 | View Replies]

To: NEMDF
Why would you care if they are offended, the don't care that you are offended by the blasphemy of God's Word.
40 posted on 12/20/2010 9:47:33 AM PST by svcw
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]


Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
first previous 1-2021-4041-6061-80 ... 161-168 next last

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
Religion
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson