[HarleyD]

You have been clearly shown the Holy Eucharist in scriptures but you disagree. Scripture as we see here has no authority - it's not saying you're right and I'm wrong.

I see nothing in scripture that states the elements actually turns into the blood and flesh of our Lord or that grace in imparted through the sacraments. On the contrary, scripture specifically states that we are to do this as a rememberance of our Lord until He returns. That's it, as a proclamation. But it is a very special sacrament handed down by our Lord Himself.

Then you understand how I'm completely perplexed when you can't see the Church, One Holy and Apostolic clearly throughout the scripture. Again - Scripture is not capable of saying I'm right and you're wrong.

I posted the Church's Catechism 841 with regards to Muslims because it is rather controversial even within the Catholic Church. It changes what has been taught throughout history. If you go over to justforcatholics.org (yes, I peek), there is an intense debate going on about this Catechism. Now the question is how can Catholics reject a Catechism given by the Church? Why should there be any debate what has been handed down? And, if you believe the Church to be fully knowledgable and unerring, then you must agree with Catechism 841 which plainly states that all a person has to have is a profession of faith of Abraham.

And let's not forget what the Fourth Lateran Council of 1215 stated about heretics (ie John MacArthur):

3. On Heretics We excommunicate and anathematize every heresy raising itself up against this holy, orthodox and catholic faith which we have expounded above. We condemn all heretics, whatever names they may go under. They have different faces indeed but their tails are tied together inasmuch as they are alike in their pride. Let those condemned be handed over to the secular authorities present, or to their bailiffs, for due punishment.

- Fourth Lateran Council of 1215 - On Heretics

It's nice to know that the Church would call John MacArthur a heretic who believes Christ is the only way to God. Yet the Catholic Church would not call Muslims heretics. Since I don't hear any disagreement with the Church, I can only assume that you do not believe Christ to be the only way to God.

In is interesting how the Church confers on Muslims the title of the "faith of Abraham". And I keep hearing how right the Church is at making these types of decisions. My, my. What a difference 800 years makes when the Church was fighting the Holy Wars and calling them hetheans and infidels. Now they have the faith of Abraham (whatever that means).

Thanks, but it isn't difficult to pick out of the scriptures that Christ is the only way to God the Father. I'd have to say I'll agree with John on this one. It's too bad the Church has a hard time understanding this if even I can understand it.

[D-fendr]

I see nothing in scripture that states the elements actually turns into the blood and flesh of our Lord or that grace in imparted through the sacraments.

And I - and the Church - do. Now what?

scripture specifically states that we are to do this as a rememberance

So? One doesn't negate the other. Non sequitur. Now what? Which is the Christian belief?

Catechism 841 which plainly states that all a person has to have is a profession of faith of Abraham.

Nope. Read more of the Catechism on the Church, Economy of Salvation, Sacraments, Particular judgement, etc.

It's nice to know that the Church would call John MacArthur a heretic who believes Christ is the only way to God.

Actually my post was about your post on MacArthur determining heresy. Who does determine heresy in your view?

I'd have to say I'll agree with John on this one.

But, not the other one. This part he's right, there he's wrong. And he'd say you're right here and wrong there.. What does the Christian Church believe? Who do I ask?