Was Mary Sinless?

The Aristophrenium ^ | 12/05/2010 | " Fisher"

[Quix]

Uhhhh Gamaliel . . . I think is the spelling. Sigh.

[Quix]

Plenty true.

[presently no screen name]

A satanic wonder? Of course not!

[Cronos]

"Who taught the Disciples? The Temple Priest or Christ and later The Holy Spirit? These were men of minimal schooling likely except for possibly Matthew."

Good point -- yet note that the majority of the writings is by that superbly educated, multi-lingual ex-Pharisee: +Paul

Now +Peter and +John etc. may have been even more devout than +Paul (note: MAY), yet +Paul was able to drive down on specific details.

+Peter may not have been able to articulate the Trinity, but I dare say +Paul would have.

Both are very good examples: a simple fisherman who just plain trusted his Lord and a highly educated, very intelligent and sharp man who believed in Him.

[Quix]

you could go ask the tens of thousands of charismatic Catholics, they all claim to have the answer

.
Actually, I believe many of them do have a great answer and Biblical truths and signs following.

[metmom]

Some seem to believe that Jesus' devinity is tied to Mary's virginity. If this were true, would He really be God?

And her alleged sinlessness, and the same question remains.

[Iscool]

Oh, I get it; you are interpreting that verse as one action; well, I interpret it as two: repent, be baptized. Where does Jesus say you have to do them together?

I'm not interpreting anything...And the scripture tells you not to interpret...

Neither Jesus nor anyone else says you must repent and get baptized together...What Jesus and the apostles say is that you must repent...Repent before baptism...Even repent without baptism...

There's not a single case of getting baptized before repentance or without repentance...

= No baptism for babies...It won't hurt 'em but they'll just get wet and cry...

[metmom]

Amen....

[shurwouldluv_a_smallergov]

"What about the thief crucified next to Jesus? Jesus told him they would be together in paradise."

While the Bible does not say, I'm assuming the "good thief" was over 18!

The Catholic Church teaches that there is such a thing as "baptism of desire"; obviously there are many who have never heard of Jesus or baptism; there must be some way for them to be saved- or are they all consigned to hell due to the circumstances of their birth?

[Cronos]

Let me give a thread as a link to elaborate what Judith is asking: here is a thread that asks NIV Bible Error Lucifer AND Jesus are ONE in the NIV

There, the poster says

All know the word "Lucifer" as another name for Satan. The word "Lucifer" is found one time in the King James Bible.

Isaiah 14:12 How art thou fallen from heaven, O Lucifer, son of the morning! how art thou cut down to the ground, which didst weaken the nations!

But what does the NIV say?

In the NIV, Lucifer is the "morning star". Now in the NIV, the KJV word "Lucifer" is identified as the "morning star". See for yourself:

Isaiah 14:12 How you have fallen from heaven, O morning star, son of the dawn! You have been cast down to the earth, you who once laid low the nations!

Therefore from the NIV Bible, the "morning star" is a negative, evil figure. Is this a correct rendering for the devil? Satan was fallen from heaven. He was cast down to the earth in Revelation. Can we find the "morning star" anywhere else in the NIV? Certainly! The following passages in the NIV shows the "morning star" as Jesus Christ! Note these verses carefully: NIV shows the "morning star" as Jesus Christ! Moreover, if the NIV can in some verses find the word "morning star" as Jesus Christ; then we would assume that the NIV can find Satan and Lucifer! Here is the verses from the NIV with the word "morning star" which identify it as Jesus Christ.

NIV: Revelation 22:16 I, Jesus, have sent my angel to give you this testimony for the churches. I am the Root and the Offspring of David, and the bright Morning Star.

NIV: 2 Peter 1:19 And we have the word of the prophets made more certain, and you will do well to pay attention to it, as to a light shining in a dark place, until the day dawns and the morning star rises in your hearts.

NIV: Revelation 2:28 I will also give him the morning star.

So the NIV successfully finds the the word "morning star" as Jesus Christ in several verses. But what about what we just observed inside the NIV when it called the fallen creature of Isaiah 14:12 the "morning star"? Since the NIV already found the word "morning star" as Jesus Christ in several verses, I would think that the translators had enough smarts to recognize that "morning star" in Isaiah 14:12 is NOT JESUS CHRIST! Therefore, from this gross error, we can only conclude that the NIV translation (I.E., commentary translation) means that Lucifer AND Jesus are ONE in the NIV!

We conclude that the NIV means that Lucifer AND Jesus are ONE in the NIV!

Heavenly Father, please intercede and help us from the gross errors found in the NIV and help people to find a much needed suitable translation of your perfect Word of God - Since you God are perfect; the Godhead is perfect; Jesus Christ is perfect; and Jesus Christ is called "the Word of God", then your Word in the Bible must be as accurate as you are perfect. In Christ Jesus name we pray. Amen.

And he then goes on to basically call those reading the NIV instead of the KJV as heretics. What is funny is that he seems to believe that the Bible was originally written in KJV English!

[SeeSac]

Doesn't the Catholic church teach that the cup becomes the literal blood of Christ?

No.

[Cronos]

Uri’s post was a sola solo add-on to God’s word. Not unusual for one of that group.

[Cronos]

Good point — here we have quite a few Catholics who heard the Gospel and read the Bible quite regularly, thank you! I wonder if Rn’s group believes that reading the NIV is wrong and they only read the Bible in KJV version (as it was wrote ;-P)

[Quix]

. TV TALKING HEAD DOUBLED OVER DESK LAUGHING: .

.
.
.

HOW CONVENIENT!
.
.
It's persistently mystifying
how seemingly easy it is for many
RC Rabid Clique types hereon
to ?blithely?
rubberize their logic and understandings of history
as well as of organizational, sociological, theological facts
.
.
to PRETEND that

The Vatican Alice In Wonderland School of Theology and Reality Mangling
[otherwise known by some as the RCC]

--to PRETEND
THAT
The VAIWSOTARM is NOT
composed of a very complex, convoluted, deceptive
nasally offensive pile of
disparate groups with theologies, dogmas, practices from A to Z
all PRETENDING to be very kosher Vatican "Christianity."

How they delude themselves that it's all a homogeneous, seamless IN-GROUP

is irrational reality mangling that would do a psychotic proud.

Thankfully, God is not the least bit fooled nor amused by such brazen falsehoods.

[Quix]

That’s a tiresome old strawdog.

[starlifter]

Well Mom, you got me on the food (I am grateful for Gamecock's correction yesterday) and I will be less riven by guilt when I enjoy a pork loin done on the grill.

But better be careful about going to the hair dresser!

[maryz]

...but a pope devoid of discernment does not seem to know one god from another

So how many "gods" do you think there are?

[maryz]

...but a pope devoid of discernment does not seem to know one god from another

So how many "gods" do you think there are? The Pope believes there is one.

[Cronos]

This is what has been debated about in this entire thread. From what I understand you saying, you do believe that from the moment we are born (or dare I say it from the moment we are conceived), we are sinners since we have the sin of Adam and Eve on us, correct?

[maryz]

Mary was born a sinner. Jesus was her Savior,

No, she wasn't -- because Jesus is her Savior.