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Was Mary Sinless?
The Aristophrenium ^ | 12/05/2010 | " Fisher"

Posted on 12/05/2010 6:14:57 PM PST by RnMomof7

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To: Grizzled Bear
Aint God amazing???!!!

He shor nuff is!!! I stand more amazed and in love with him every day he allows me to wake up! :o)

1,281 posted on 12/07/2010 8:24:37 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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To: boatbums
Perhaps you think you said that.
1,282 posted on 12/07/2010 8:25:45 PM PST by Judith Anne (Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death.)
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To: Grizzled Bear

Yes, it certainly would make my job easier for everyone to forgive and forget and elevate the tone on the Religion Forum.


1,283 posted on 12/07/2010 8:25:48 PM PST by Religion Moderator
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To: freedumb2003; boatbums; Grizzled Bear; metmom; Religion Moderator

Some of my best friendships began as barroom brawls. At one time, it was a military tradition.

I’m glad to call a cease fire.

Concerning your cold, here’s a sure fire way to relieve the symptoms.

Take a sturdy shot glass (not the thin, fancy kind but an old fashioned thick variety). Fill to about half with honey (local, if you can get it). Microwave in 5 - 10 second intervals until it bubbles. Do not allow it to bubble over. Carefully remove from the microwave (boiling honey will cause particularly nasty burns). Top off with your favorite whisky (Single Malt Scotch was originally distilled for medicinal purposes). Breath the fumes as soon as you pour in the whisky. Sip it slowly. Repeat as needed.

May God speed your recovery.


1,284 posted on 12/07/2010 8:30:40 PM PST by Grizzled Bear ("Does not play well with others.")
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To: boatbums; RnMomof7
I'm not trying to be argumentative here, but I think Pope Leo XIII in 1878-1903 did not have all the facts concerning the makeup of the fetus.

Thank you for explaining that, but which relates to two more things.

One is that, as pointed out before, Mary was begotten by a sinner and sinners going back to Adam, and the idea that God required a sinless vessel to beget the word made flesh is no more warranted than holding that the Divinely inspired word of God required sinless holy men. As was also pointed out before. And so if the Eucharist is eating Mary's flesh it is to some degree consuming Adam's.

The second is that of the confusion over what is considered binding in Catholicism. The Infallible Magisterium considered all teaching to to be assuredly infallible when spoken in accordance with her infallible defined formula. While the AIM does a type of unity based upon assent of faith to infallible teaching, which all the teachings are that infallible as well as what they mean is open to interpretation. With some pronouncements it is quite evident and accepted that the criteria for infallibly has been fulfilled, although there is disagreement how many times. One Roman Catholic apologist will hold that the Pope has spoken ex cathedra twice while another believes it has been four. Of all teaching, it has been estimated indeed that the total of such texts is under twenty, though there are of course many other indirectly determined.”

Others argue for more, such as Orthodox who postulate such based upon the statement by Bishop Vincent Gasser, who stated, "Already thousands and thousands of dogmatic judgments have gone forth from the apostolic See;" Gasser was spokesman for the deputation “de fide” (the committee of Conciliar Fathers charged with drafting the solemn definition), who delivered a four-hour speech explaining and defending the draft which was submitted to the assembled Fathers for their vote. Gasser stated is quoted no less than four times in the official footnotes to “Lumen Gentium” 25, which treats of infallibility.

As for FIdentem Piumque Animum, the encyclical of Pope Leo XIII on the rosary, if the science is not right then the theology is not. But this is a m,atter of interpretation. As for its infallibility,

Humani Generis, #20, states,

Nor must it be thought that what is expounded in Encyclical Letters does not of itself demand consent, since in writing such Letters the Popes do not exercise the supreme power of their Teaching Authority. For these matters are taught with the ordinary teaching authority, of which it is true to say: "He who heareth you, heareth me" (Luke 10:16); and generally what is expounded and inculcated in Encyclical Letters already for other reasons appertains to Catholic doctrine. But if the Supreme Pontiffs in their official documents purposely pass judgment on a matter up to that time under dispute, it is obvious that that matter, according to the mind and will of the Pontiffs, cannot be any longer considered a question open to discussion among theologians.

Which presumes clarity, or a degree of such, part or whole, that precludes charges of ambiguity.

1,285 posted on 12/07/2010 8:31:08 PM PST by daniel1212 ( ("Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out," Acts 3:19))
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To: Religion Moderator

We’ll try to behave. Thanks for doing a job that I do not want!

;-)


1,286 posted on 12/07/2010 8:33:44 PM PST by Grizzled Bear ("Does not play well with others.")
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To: Grizzled Bear

LOL. Thank you for your support.


1,287 posted on 12/07/2010 8:34:32 PM PST by Religion Moderator
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To: freedumb2003
I hope you start feeling better soon! We ALL have our grumpy moments.

Here's my Stella angel to wish you a "get well soon"!


1,288 posted on 12/07/2010 8:35:29 PM PST by boatbums (God is ready to assume full responsibility for the life wholly yielded to him.)
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To: presently no screen name

What are you doing but using human reasoning? What do you think discernment is? We are not angels, but creatures of flesh and blood.


1,289 posted on 12/07/2010 8:36:10 PM PST by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
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To: shurwouldluv_a_smallergov

“Where does Jesus say one must be married to enter heaven? “

The Bible clearly shows that is not necessary, and my point was your argument from silence is invalid, when evidence to the contrary exists, in this case stated requirements for the baptizee are stipulated.


“Well, that’s your interpretation. I interpret it that Jesus said baptism is necessary for salvation; He did not say you had to be 18 to be baptized.”

If you stand is absolute, then Cornelius and household were not saved, which conversions i pointed out to you.


“As One Who was very clear about His love for children, I cannot imagine Him saying “no baptisms under the age of reason; if you die before then, well tough luck!”’.

Your premise is that children need to be baptized, which i also responded to.


1,290 posted on 12/07/2010 8:46:32 PM PST by daniel1212 ( ("Repent ye therefore, and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out," Acts 3:19))
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To: RobbyS; presently no screen name
What are you doing but using human reasoning? What do you think discernment is? We are not angels, but creatures of flesh and blood.

If you are saved, you have received the spirit which is of God; that we may know the things that are freely given to us of God." 1 Cor. 2:12.

The natural man (the unsaved man) uses human reasoning for his discernment. "But the natural man receiveth NOT the things of the Spirit of God: for they are FOOLISHNESS unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned." 1 Cor. 2:14.

1,291 posted on 12/07/2010 8:50:22 PM PST by smvoice (Defending the Indefensible: The Pride of a Pawn.)
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To: boatbums

What a beautiful cat!


1,292 posted on 12/07/2010 8:50:49 PM PST by Judith Anne (Holy Mary, Mother of God, please pray for us sinners now, and at the hour of our death.)
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To: daniel1212; shurwouldluv_a_smallergov
“Well, that’s your interpretation. I interpret it that Jesus said baptism is necessary for salvation; He did not say you had to be 18 to be baptized.”

What about the thief crucified next to Jesus? Jesus told him they would be together in paradise.

1,293 posted on 12/07/2010 8:54:09 PM PST by Grizzled Bear ("Does not play well with others.")
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To: smvoice

Man, saved or not, is a composite of body and soul. Potters clay infused with a spirit. When you read the Bible you do so with fleshly eyes even though it is the inner eye that “sees” the truth. When you speak to others it is with a fleshly tongue that communicates what you know to others.


1,294 posted on 12/07/2010 8:59:22 PM PST by RobbyS (Pray with the suffering souls.)
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To: RobbyS

Unsaved man does not have the Holy Spirit indwelling him. ANd that is where spiritual discernment comes from.


1,295 posted on 12/07/2010 9:05:05 PM PST by smvoice (Defending the Indefensible: The Pride of a Pawn.)
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To: Grizzled Bear

>>Take a sturdy shot glass (not the thin, fancy kind but an old fashioned thick variety). Fill to about half with honey (local, if you can get it). Microwave in 5 - 10 second intervals until it bubbles. Do not allow it to bubble over. Carefully remove from the microwave (boiling honey will cause particularly nasty burns). Top off with your favorite whisky (Single Malt Scotch was originally distilled for medicinal purposes). Breath the fumes as soon as you pour in the whisky. Sip it slowly. Repeat as needed.<<

Do I get to blame my subsequent posts on you???

Seriously, I am glad we have come to accord and I think I will turn off my computer before seriously hitting your remedy.

Any other posts you see from me later this evening is the ghost of my beloved parted kittie who really, really loved FR!


1,296 posted on 12/07/2010 9:16:36 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Lt. Drebin: Like a blind man at an orgy, I was going to have to feel my way through.)
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To: Grizzled Bear
Photobucket
.
.
Though as a rule, most Proddys try to avoid letting the liberal troll riffraff jangle us very often or very significantly.

1,297 posted on 12/07/2010 9:20:37 PM PST by Quix (Times are a changin' INSURE you have believed in your heart & confessed Jesus as Lord Come NtheFlesh)
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To: boatbums

Thanks for those beautiful eyes.

I spent the last 18 and 25 years — yes Musica lived to be 25! — of my life (well, sadly, until several years ago) with 2 wonderful kitties who I love to this day as much as when they were with me.

I was only a “dog” person before that b/c I was a believer in the stereotype of cats. Of course, having been owned by those cats, I learned the basics: “Dogs have owners, Cats have staff” Dog: “you feed me, you love me, you play with me, you do everything — You must be God!” Cat: “you feed me, you love me, you play with me, you do everything — I must be God!” :) ;)

Buenos noches and thanks for the lovely image as I lay me down to rest...


1,298 posted on 12/07/2010 9:27:20 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Lt. Drebin: Like a blind man at an orgy, I was going to have to feel my way through.)
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To: Dr. Eckleburg
No one has as many posts pulled as him.

Not for a lack of trying, anyway!

1,299 posted on 12/07/2010 9:29:37 PM PST by Alex Murphy ("Posting news feeds, making eyes bleed, he's hated on seven continents")
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To: Grizzled Bear

>>Would that make your job easier, RM? <<

Last thought — I was composing as you were posting LOL!

We can perhaps reach another accord: GMTA!!

Thanks again and God bless and keep you and yours.


1,300 posted on 12/07/2010 9:30:12 PM PST by freedumb2003 (Lt. Drebin: Like a blind man at an orgy, I was going to have to feel my way through.)
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